#8: [Inside the Mind] Matt Doud, Pebble Beach Caddie and Course Management Strategist
Episode Summary:
In this episode of The Scratch Golfers Mindset Podcast, Paul Salter sits down with Matt Doud to discuss Matt’s unique journey from baseball player to avid golfer and caddy at Pebble Beach. Matt shares lessons learned from caddying, common mental game mistakes golfers make, and how practicing short game helped him improve his handicap.
He also dives into his own mental game strategies, particularly the importance of course management and maintaining focus under pressure. Whether you’re aiming to lower your score or refine your mental approach, this episode is packed with valuable insights.
Listen in to learn how to better manage your game on the course and improve your golf mindset!
P.S. If you’re interested in learning more about how mindset coaching and hypnotherapy can help you get unstuck from the proverbial bunker of poor performance on the course and in your business, click here to schedule a coaching discovery call with me.
Key Quotes:
- “Okay, you get 10 seconds to feel how you want to feel about that shot. And then you have got to let the fucking thing go.”
- “If you wonder why you’re stuck shooting low nineties or high eighties and you aspire to shoot scratch, here’s an easy way to likely shave off quite a few strokes without affecting your swing or even talking about pre-shot post-shot routines or anything. It’s just simple course management.”
- “Accept the outcome of that shot no matter what it was – immediately accept a shot mentally and emotionally and then start the routine over for the next one.”
More About Matt Doud
Matt Doud, a certified Business Made Simple coach, is an early-stage Co-founder and Fractional COO based in the Kansas City Metro Area. Having discovered his passion for advising and coaching during his time as a caddy at Pebble Beach Golf Club in Carmel, CA, Matt pursued opportunities to utilize these skills professionally.
He began by leveraging his Economics and Business degree from Westmont College as a financial advisor in Portland, OR, before co-founding Pre-Approve Me, a residential mortgage software company, in 2013, where he served as COO.
Connect with Matt here.
Time Stamps:
- 00:00 Introduction and Overview
- 13:46 Matt’s Golf Journey and Caddying at Pebble Beach
- 19:48 Managing the Margin of Error in Club Selection
- 21:35 Choosing the Right Shot on Hole 11 at Spyglass Hill
- 26:31 Handling Tournament Pressure with Trust and Decisiveness
- 32:23 The Impact of Practicing the Short Game
- 36:10 Separating Self-Worth from Golf Scores
- 40:33 Combining Golf and Business Coaching
Transcript:
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset Coach (00:02.268)
Hey Matt, thank you so much for joining me on another episode of the Scratch Golfers Mindset Podcast. How are you today?
Matt Doud (00:09.299) Good Paul, how’s it going man? It’s great to be here. Yeah.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset Coach (00:11.388)
Yeah, it’s going fantastic. And I am excited for this conversation. We’re going to talk about your golf journey, but your caddying journey. I love, you know, from one entrepreneur to another, how we can really, I’m sure we’ll get on a tangent there, just the overlap and parallels between golf, entrepreneurship, and that beautiful game of life. But I always love.
Matt Doud (00:14.771) Yeah, me too.
Matt Doud (00:25.971) Yeah.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset Coach (00:33.148)
to get a great foundation going for our listeners. So please dive in, tell us about your golf journey from when it began to where and what it looks like today.
Matt Doud (00:41.627) Hmm. Yeah, for sure. Man golf journey. Okay, so I was a baseball player and you know, general athlete growing up, but baseball was my first love. So I didn’t even think about golf very much for a while. My dad was a recreational golfer. I remember one time I was like 10 years old, he took me out, we were on summer vacation. And I thought, man, I can hit a baseball, I could hit a golf ball, and I could barely, you know, make contact with the ball is like,
This sucks. This is hard. I don’t like it. So had that one outing. But then I think a few years later, I was like 14. He took me and my sister and mom out to do just family lessons with our local pro who we may talk about later. He’s one of the he’s amazing. And you know, we did these lessons for a few weeks and I got totally hooked at that point. Like because, you know, he helped me hit the ball a little more solid. All of a sudden I was like, I am in.
I remember that summer I made my my buddy and I got into it and I made my mom drop me off at the either that golf course or a little local par three like every day it feels like whenever I wasn’t playing baseball, right? So I started getting into it but decided that I wanted to I even thought about converting, you know, like playing high school golf or whatever. I don’t know if I probably was good enough at that point, but I decided to play baseball as long as I could because I knew I just kind of knew like this has a shelf life team sport. I’m not going to be able to do it forever.
the same way as golf is like a forever deal. So I kind of put it on the back burner, played baseball through high school and tried in college, didn’t really get there. But so in college, I started to kind of make the transition. Went to a small school, Westmont College in Santa Barbara, really small liberal arts school. Didn’t have a golf team or anything, but we started a golf club. So I got, yeah, some seniors, I was a sophomore, got in, started doing, that was the first time I played in a real golf tournament.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset Coach (02:22.652)
Okay.
Matt Doud (02:31.955) you know, that wasn’t like a scramble or a local event or just like out with my dad or buddies or whatever. It was like, there’s pressure. This is real, you know, and I didn’t do that well, but I loved it. Actually. I did really badly. it was pretty funny. That’s actually, there’s kind of a funny story there. Maybe I’ll tell it. All right. So my first tournament ever, we’re in Southern California. We go down outside of San Diego. I’m a sophomore in college and get on the first tee and
and actually hit a decent shot, but from there, the round was just brutal, right? It was just tough. I think I shot 99. In fact, I know I shot 99 because it’s interesting how it worked the next day. So I just lots of doubles, you know, bogeys, double bogeys, scrape it around, get in. OK, and my whole team, we’re all like packs. So we’re all on the earliest tee times the second day, right? We’re all teeing off at 7 a But I decide just to hit my three iron off the tee that second day.
instead of driver because I was getting in trouble off the tee. So I go around the front nine and shoot 39. All right, so massive improvement. But we were up super early and I, you know, just didn’t know how to think about this stuff. So we make the turn, we keep going, I’m feeling pretty good. So I hadn’t really had much breakfast and I didn’t really eat anything at the turn. And then I was like, I’m hitting the ball pretty good. So I pulled out my driver. So on the back nine, just.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset Coach (03:58.268)
Thank you.
Matt Doud (03:59.123) Everything starts to fall apart and if you played much golf you’ve had those times where all of a sudden the wheels just fall off, you know So I’m back to making bogeys then doubles and just kind of hacking it around again starting to my attitude is starting to fall just it’s a struggle I get on the 17th tee and It’s a par -4 up the hill Creek fence Road OB on the right hand side. Okay, not a real hard hole, but like definitely can’t miss right well, I
slice one OB, re -T it, slice it again out of bounds. Okay, crap, go back, re -T it with three iron this time, still kind of heel chunk slice it out. So I have to hit my fourth shot, I’m hitting seven off the T and finally get one in play, end up making a 13, make triple on 18, and I end up shooting 60 on the back nine.
So I go to turn in the scorecard. Remember I shot 99 the first day and now I shot 99 the second day, but it was 3960.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset Coach (05:05.34)
my goodness.
Matt Doud (05:07.155) So I was like, wow, all right, I think I learned a lot. I don’t know, but didn’t discourage me. I was just like, that sucks. I don’t know. So we went through college, you know, played, did that golf club for a couple of years, got out of school, was trying to figure out my life and career. My dad was a business owner. I ended up back in Oregon where I’m from working for him. I’m kind of knowing that that wasn’t really what I wanted to do long term, but I was just trying to figure stuff out. And one day,
A few months into that, I called my buddy up who’s an older guy who had been like local, you know, guy that we hung out of the golf course. Kind of a mentor type, you know, big brother sort of dude called him up. Like, hey, Al, what’s going on? Let’s go and play some golf or whatever. It’s springtime. He’s like, yeah, I’d love to, but I’m down at Pebble caddying for the summer. And I was just like, you are doing what? And I don’t know. Somehow I just instantly knew I wanted to do that.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset Coach (06:05.564)
Hmm.
Matt Doud (06:05.715) Like right as he said it. I was like, I totally want to do that. Can you hook me up? You know, whatever. He’s like, yeah, I can, yeah, for sure I’ll hook you up. But they had just done their hiring for the year. So it was like, I had to wait that whole year, right? I got in touch with them. Like, yeah, contact us next, you know, early next year and we’ll get you in the system and process it. So I go, this is 2003 that this is all happening. So spring of 2004.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset Coach (06:17.884)
Mm.
Matt Doud (06:33.939) I’m like chomping at the bed. I you know, I go through the system. I’m like bugging him all the time. He’s like, yeah, whatever. Yeah, anyway, so I get down there, I get go down and I’ll march or April to go do my interview. And like, it’s a group interview is actually pretty easy. And we do you know, do an on course test and boom, I’m in I’m going to caddy at Pebble. I remember walk, I don’t know, are you familiar with Pebble Beach at all? Yeah. So they held the interview.
in the lodge in the conference room upstairs, like overlooking the 18th green and the Bay and stuff, you know, Carmel, Stillwater Cove there. And I just remember being so pumped, like so happy. And I walk out on the lawn out behind the 18th green and call my dad and I’m like, hey, I did it. I’m doing it. I think he’d been a little, you know, like, what are you doing? But
He was also pumped because he’s a big golfer and you know, loves pebble and loves it all. And didn’t take long. He was like excited for it. So, so yeah, I’m 20, whatever 25 years old, moving down back down to California to caddy and just to have an adventure, you know, and it was definitely not like a career trajectory thing. It was just like a life thing. And I, I was so excited. I just knew it was something that I would regret if I didn’t do and I knew I wanted to do it and.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset Coach (07:58.844)
Mm -hmm.
Matt Doud (08:00.595) spent the next couple years down there and I learned a bunch actually. It was not only was it just super fun because everybody’s on vacation, everybody’s there to have a good time. It’s not super serious golf for the most part, but you know, it’s these great courses. It’s pebble, spyglass, Spanish Bay, you know, like you can’t really top it. Great weather most of the time or really terrible weather, which is also fun. But I also learned that the type of work I like to do,
which is this coaching, consulting, advising, and that. So that really helped me kind of as I moved back into my career later. But then on the golf side, I got to work with a really great pro down there, Patrick Parrish, he worked at Poppy Hills, which is near the property there on the peninsula. And so.
Yeah, I got a lot better at golf. That was kind of when I made the transition from baseball and just whatever random athlete to golfer sorta, started to, he was the first person to put my swing on film. And I always have had a nice tempo and kind of smooth move. But when I saw myself on film, I was like disgusted by it. I don’t know if you ever had that experience. And but yeah, he started to show me.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset Coach (09:07.356)
Mmm.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset Coach (09:16.508)
Matt Doud (09:20.595) the game a little more broken down. My original teacher had been great for a foundation and then this was getting a little more technical, that type of thing. And so, I mean, are we doing good here? I’m kind of just bringing you right up to date, yeah. So yeah, so I mean, this is about 20 years ago.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset Coach (09:35.1)
Please, yeah.
Matt Doud (09:41.587) So I played a ton, I was doing something golf every day and that was actually my mindset. I was like, I wanna get better and so I’m gonna do something golf related every day. I had caddying counted, right, because I was thinking my way around the course all the time, thinking for somebody else. That helped my mental approach a bunch and sort of emotional regulation and that kind of thing. But definitely like looking at the course more strategically. And then I wanted to chip, putt, hit balls or play or something, you know, every day if I could. So I pretty much accomplished that.
played a lot of golf, got a lot better, ended up coming back to Oregon eventually and kind of moving into a professional, you know, trying to figure out my professional career. And started getting connected with just golfers, buddies around Portland, Oregon area. And over the course of the next few years got plugged into kind of the golf community. Like we knew club pros, you know, and just guys who liked to play a lot. So we started playing.
different events, I started getting into the amateur stuff, you know, like playing in some real tournaments, trying to qualify for the Mid -Am and the Oregon Am. Started playing in Pro -Ams with these club pros sometimes and got a lot of experience playing like tournament, you know, amateur tournament level golf, which that’s a whole nother bump up in ability. Cause I mean, you, you go from playing casual rounds to playing where there’s like a, you have to play by all the rules and you have to.
pull out every putt, you know, and if you lose a ball, you’re, you know, you’re counting all the, there’s no, yeah, exactly. You can lip out a two footer. It would have been a gimme with your buddies, you know, but like it counts out there. And so I had some, some high numbers in rounds like that, because it’s just the pressure’s different. The mindset is different. But eventually I started to figure that out and started to play good golf in some of those events and loved it. Man, I loved the competition and just that little added.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset Coach (11:12.22)
There’s no breakfast balls either.
Matt Doud (11:37.843) you know, there’s a little bit of added pressure, a little, there’s something else to it, you know? So I did that a bunch through like kind of the 2010s and then ended up moving out here to Kansas City where I live now in 2017 and golf took a little bit of a backseat for a while. I was kind of focused on some other things. And, but over the last couple of years, I’ve started to, it started to come back around.
One of the things that happens, I had kids, so I’ve got young kids at home. That definitely like automatically puts golf on the back burner. But yeah, the last couple of years, I’ve had a little more space, a little more time, been able to work on the game a little bit. I figured out a couple things about my own swing and about the swing in general that have made it much easier to come and go out of like not having a lot of practice and playing time and still being able to play halfway decently, which was always a struggle for me.
And so I don’t know. I just played an event on Saturday actually and Played well had a great time played a great course Shot a pretty good score and I don’t know. So here we are The other piece I guess would be teaching Over the years. I’ve always enjoyed helping, you know, my buddies out for the most part I haven’t done a lot of formal teaching I’ve had some people do a few lessons with me here and there but
Yeah, I just enjoy teaching the game and relaying, you know, mental approach, especially swing technique. As I’ve learned it, I like to relate it to other people. You know, anything to help them enjoy golf more. That was the same thing with caddying. It was like, that’s the same thing in my game. Playing good golf is way more fun than playing bad golf. Even though you can have fun struggling, you know, not hitting it well, you can have a good time, but it’s more fun to play well, right? It’s more fun to hit a solid. It’s more fun to shoot good scores.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset Coach (13:30.3)
Yeah.
Matt Doud (13:33.395) Right, so helping other people do that is always fun for me. Yeah, so there’s a lot there, kind of condensed into a couple minutes, but yeah, it’s been fun. It’s been 30 plus years now since I started out.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset Coach (13:37.34)
Dude, what a journey.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset Coach (13:43.1)
Yeah.
Yeah, so I’m gonna definitely dig in deeper unpack some of these milestones and moments you experienced. So take me back to Pebble Beach, you’re caddying for a few years there. You’re working with I imagine golfers of all skill levels and experiences. And yes, the general undertone is vacation, relaxation and play, which we all need that reminder sometimes even the most competitive of us. But I’m curious, but particularly reflecting back now with all that the knowledge and experience you have, what are some of the common
Matt Doud (14:05.107) Yep.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset Coach (14:15.9)
mental game downfalls you witnessed in the, let’s call it the typical player there who was at Pebble Beach.
Matt Doud (14:22.579) Mm -hmm.
Matt Doud (14:27.411) Well, core strategy, core strategy, like just always yanking driver, you know, just pulling driver on every tee because you hit driver off the tee, right? Well, that is that’s just not right. That’s not the best way to go about it. And it may be the most fun when you pipe one, obviously, that’s you know, there’s a couple of the greatest feelings in golf. One is smoking a drive, you know, burying a long putt is a good one, hitting a really crisp iron shot is up there. But when you
When you center up a drive, it’s pretty much top of the list. So it’s hard to fault somebody for wanting to do that, but if you want to shoot your best score, you gotta think about the hole backwards, right? Like, what shot do I want to be hitting into this hole? What shot is gonna set me up for that the best? Also, if you’re playing not the tips, which most of us are playing whites or blues most of the time,
Driver, if you hit it relatively, if you’re hitting a 250, 260, something like that, a lot of times you’re hitting it into part of the course, it starts to narrow down. You got fairway bunkers or you got whatever’s going on, you’re not hitting the biggest target. So your margin of error, I think that’s like the phrase I would use. Are you managing your margin of error with the shots you select, with the clubs you choose?
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset Coach (15:41.916)
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset Coach (15:47.452)
Matt Doud (15:48.243) Because golf is, I was thinking about this, golf is a physical sport. I know that everybody’s like, you know, golf is 90 % mental and it is, but your mental game is there to support your physical swing, right? Because Iron Byron, the machine that tests clubs and balls and everything, doesn’t need a mental game because it makes a perfect swing every time, right? Like you’re still physically hitting the golf ball. So your mentality helps set you up for making a good swing.
Yeah, so does that make sense? I mean, that would be margin of error. Are you managing your margin of error?
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset Coach (16:20.412)
Yeah. It’s so timely too, because I believe when all this comes out, it’ll be episode six, I think with what my buddy who’s a near scratch golfer, Luke, we were talking about the same thing. It’s just so common practice, like choose driver off the tee, driver off the tee. Like, yeah, it’s fun. It’s exhilarating. It’s hard to replicate a feeling like that elsewhere in life. Yet we kept jokingly calling it like that’s like big drive energy. Like the ego is leading there. And yes, it’s fun, but
Matt Doud (16:39.379) Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset Coach (16:50.3)
if you continuously shank your driver like you’re setting yourself up in a position to score poorly and at the end of the day, your scorecard does not reflect the number of pretty perfect shots you hit. The game is to score as low as you can and you’ve got to be smart with iron and course or a club selection. So I’m curious, what would you recommend someone who
Matt Doud (17:00.915) Yeah.
Right. Right.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset Coach (17:11.9)
gravitates towards that driver mentality like do you recommend they look at the course and all the course details ahead of time the night before how should they approach the course and whole management.
Matt Doud (17:21.811) Well, yeah, definitely if you can sort of scope out, you know, what teams are going to be playing, you can never know exactly what the conditions are going to be. You don’t know how the wind’s going to be blowing, you know, that all that kind of stuff in the moment has an effect, which is where a good routine comes in. Right. Like having a good pre shot routine. But yeah, I would, if you’re playing around that you care about scoring well, you know, there’s a difference between we’re just going to go out and play, have fun, drink some beers, whatever. And in that case, just relax, chill out, go hit the ball and, you know, just.
have a good time with it. But if you’re trying to score well, play well, compete, then obviously, yeah, as you know, looking at the hole by hole and trying to create a strategy or at least like getting an idea of what you want to do on every hole is great. A practice round, if you’re really at a competitive level, you’re probably playing a practice round and then, you know, that, so that may or may not be part of the whole equation. But yeah, so I’ve never been a super detailed, like map out everything type of a guy, but I do like to have an idea of what.
is going on. I think when you’re just, even when you’re standing on the T -box, if you, you know, I use a rangefinder rather than a watch or whatever, because I want to be able to know the distance to absolutely anything, like that post over there or that tree or that bunker lip front or back or whatever. So I, and you know, I just want to be able to hit anything and know what I’m talking about or know what I’m dealing with. And so the approach there would be, what is my,
Biggest, well, I guess I would say, is there an advantage, a real advantage to blast in it down there? You know, like, am I really gaining something? Because sometimes there is, sometimes actually your trouble is a little closer and hitting a driver gets you over that, even if you kind of sprayed a little bit bigger target. Well, that’s a great play then, you know, again, margin of error, right? Increasing your odds, but yeah.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset (19:16.796)
And like for those of you listening, like this is such phenomenal wisdom because like what I hear and see all the time is that like, when you make a poor ego led decision on your club selection driver over your five wood, for example, your three iron, like you may be costing yourself a stroke or two per hole. If you’re prone to poor decisions, six to 10 times around, like do the math. If you wonder why you’re stuck shooting low nineties or high eighties and you aspire to shoot scratch, here’s an easy way to likely shave off
quite a few strokes without affecting your swing or even talking about pre shot post shot routines or anything. It’s just simple course management which comes into slowing down, preparing ahead of time and making an objective decision regardless of how you feel or what your last hole was like to start the next hole.
Matt Doud (20:00.947) Yep.
Yeah.
Matt Doud (20:09.907) Ooh, that’s true, let me bounce back to that idea too in a second, but let me give you a tangible example of what I mean, because course management can kind of be, you know, ethereal, right? Like, what does that even mean? Okay, so hole number 11 at Spyglass Hill, in Monterey, in the peninsula there, is a par five, dogleg right, kind of goes downhill, it’s kind of slightly downhill, then it takes a right turn and goes down into a little bit of a dip, and then back up to the green, surrounded by a whole, like a whole.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset (20:18.62)
Matt Doud (20:37.747) pearl necklace of bunkers, right? Just a bunch of bunkers all around it, guarding it, kind of front on the right, and the greens tucked around behind them on the right. So, off the tee box, it’s like, you can hit it through the fairway, first of all, right? It’s possible to hit it through the fairway, which is junk, just done, trees and long grass and drop, you’re taking the drop. So what you need to do is you either need to hit kind of a high fade around the corner, right?
kind of perfect because there’s trees right also, so you can get caught up in those and then you’re punching out if you can even find it. So either that or you’re laying, well okay, so if you’re hitting driver, that’s what you gotta do. You gotta kind of thread it around that corner, okay? And then if you do that successfully, you’re still looking at a couple hundred yards at least back over this kind of dip down and up to a green surrounded, guarded by bunkers in the front and on the sides and then trees and junk around behind it.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset (21:18.428)
Mm -hmm.
Matt Doud (21:34.035) and you’re off of a not a perfectly flat driving range lie, right? It’s side hill downhill usually, most of that fairway. So think about it, you’re trying to hit like a four iron or a hybrid or a three wood or something from an awkward lie, even if you’re in the middle of the fairway. And so it was like, that was one of the holes that stands out to me. It’s like, what is the point of hitting driver here? You have to hit it absolutely perfect. And even if you do, it’s not ideal for your second shot.
So what if we just hit three wood or hybrid or back then it was five wood or whatever. Knock it out there, couple hundred yards, 220, 240, whatever. And then you’re hitting an eight iron or seven iron down to the bottom of the hill to lay up and then you’re hitting a wedge up there. And it’s like, it just didn’t make sense. That was one of the things that kind of tipped me off to start thinking about this kind of thing, if that helps.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset (22:29.852)
Yeah, that’s an incredible example. I appreciate you sharing that now digging into something else you touched upon is this pre shot routine. So many people so many opinions, variations and approaches. Whether you were talking to someone you were teaching or perhaps even describing your own. I’m curious, what light would you shed on like the priorities and purpose of a sound pre shot routine?
Matt Doud (22:53.811) Yep. Well, you mentioned making an emotional decision, right? Like having a bad hole. And so then you pull out driving and hit it as hard as you can and make quadruple eagle on the next hole to make back all those strokes, you know, like we get that way, right? That’s how our subconscious mind works. It’s like we’re pissed off. Okay. So when I was trying to qualify for the Oregon state am I tried and failed twice at two years in a row. And that was because
Mainly because I was kind of hanging in there hanging in there and got to the 15th or 16th hole and blew up like I made a quad each year on those holes because of Indecision off the tee and then just you know one bad thing after another kind of lead in a spiral, right? So and then that would knock me out of contention So the third year I went back to do it and I was like Thinking about how you know, what do I need to change in order to make this work?
And I came up with a pre -shot route, actually a whole shot routine. And here’s what it was. It was mostly not about the swing, mostly mental -emotional. Okay, so first step, four steps. Step one, pick my target. That means includes like where am I gonna hit it, what club am I gonna hit, what kind of shot am I gonna hit, draw, fade, high, low, you know, that type of thing. Okay, target, set up.
So I have a setup key that’s been true for me forever, which is I gotta get my shoulders aligned. I tend to line up my shoulders closed and then everything dominoes from there and I get inside on the takeaway and over the top and steep coming down. Hit really bad shots. So I gotta get my shoulders aligned and like set up from there. So if I select my target, set up correctly, next is execute. Hit the shot, get set up, let it fly. And then the most important step, step four was accept.
Accept the outcome of that shot no matter what it was Topped at four feet hit in the creek, you know striped it down the middle. Whatever Immediately accept a shot mentally and emotionally and then start the routine over for the next one What am I gonna do from here? So I was completely playing every shot in a silo of what is the best way to approach this shot and I shot 75 and qualified, you know, it was awesome. Yeah, I
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset (24:48.252)
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset (25:10.396)
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset (25:14.428)
Matt Doud (25:16.211) And it was great. I even double bogey number 17. It was just kind of a tough hole. I came back and birdied 18 to finish, you know? So it really, I was so happy about that because that approach really worked. And I try to use that approach now anytime I’m playing a round that I care about.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset (25:35.1)
I love that because that description mirrors what I do personally and how I coach my athletes is that I call it the next shot mentality. I love your use of the word silo like the past the present do not I mean the past the future don’t matter. It’s this next shot and I love love the emphasis that you included it even in the routine is acceptance because yeah whether you pipe one down the middle you shank it in the woods your next shot is the most important shot. So I even started toying around with some of my.
let’s call them more emotional golfers. I will help them reframe and how about passionate acceptance? You’re gonna have a lot of emotion. Yeah, but accept it passionately. And even like sometimes with some of my finicky clients who are just really having a tough time because they care so deeply. It’s like, okay, you get 10 seconds to feel how you want to feel about that shot. And then you have got to let the fucking thing go. So thrilled to hear you echo that. And
Matt Doud (26:07.571) Hehehehe
Matt Doud (26:11.699) Yeah, you don’t be happy about it exactly. Yeah, yeah.
Matt Doud (26:25.107) Mm -hmm.
Matt Doud (26:30.067) You do. Yeah. Yeah.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset (26:32.732)
You know, I’m curious as your career trajectory and your skill level continue to increase, what did you find to be the greatest challenge when playing tournament pressure -filled golf versus the more lackadaisical or recreational round with your buddies?
Matt Doud (26:48.563) Mm hmm. It’s it’s weird. You know, I think that what happens, honestly, is you get in a little bit of fight or flight mode, and it’s hard to access a lot of your memory and knowledge. So I even had like, I’ve been playing a couple events and the first one a couple three weeks ago now I played and I got out of sync. And I just had a really rough front nine and I could not figure out what it was. And it was the simplest thing, you know.
It was the simplest thing. I was just getting a little too much on my front foot and like reverse pivoting almost. You know, I just, my swing was out of sync. I wasn’t loading well. And as soon as I finally remembered that I started to hit the ball. Okay. But it was just, there was this, it was like, took way too long. It took most of the whole front nine to figure that out, you know? And so, swing, I don’t know. I mean, it’s important, I think.
to just do it, to get out there and play and put yourself in situations that you’re uncomfortable because no matter how, it’s like the Mike Tyson thing, I guess. Everybody has a plan to get punched in the mouth, right? It’s hard to actually, you can’t plan everything. You can’t predict everything. You can’t know everything that’s gonna happen. What experience is huge, because then you can start to draw on that when you’re out there. And I have quite a bit of experience now and even I struggled with that a couple weeks ago.
So it’s still, I don’t know if I have great advice for that. You can have a few keys though. Like if you know the keys that help you make your best swings and play your best golf. And I don’t want a lot of like mechanical swing thoughts, you know, but like two or three keys to how you’re gonna approach even your swing is okay. Like for me, like I was saying shoulder alignment, that’s a big deal. Usually when I get that right, everything flows from there, you know, and I wasn’t.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset (28:32.924)
Matt Doud (28:42.803) really getting that right, I was kind of rushing through it and just setting up without really paying close enough attention and then not making good swings. So yeah, I think that would be my main thought there.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset (28:55.676)
It’s interesting. And I’m curious if this resonates with you because I see it a lot. And I saw yesterday on the on the tour. So today is what to say today’s May 13. McElroy just won that tournament this weekend. But what’s does stands out to me that I noticed and I’m sure you can relate to or observed as well as that. When we’re in those pressure filled moments, whether it’s your first tournament, it’s the club tournament, or it is the Sunday of a tournament, even if you have significant experience and you’re near the top of the leaderboard is that you slow down so much that you invite in opportunity for
for more mechanical swing focus thoughts rather than just letting your subconscious lead where you’re in control at smooth and fluid. So like the example yesterday, and I wish I had the power could find somebody to pull up a side by side, but Rory and Xander were in the final pairing yesterday. And it was it just became blatantly obvious between Thursday compared to the first few holes of Sunday and the back nine of Sunday Xander’s pre shot routine kept growing like
Matt Doud (29:39.443) Mm.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset (29:54.108)
a second or two longer and longer and longer. Over the ball, he’s thinking and I can’t assume what he’s thinking about, but it seems like he’s just thinking and thinking and thinking. And you see this real interesting moment where Rory Bogie, Xander Eagles, there’s a change.
Matt Doud (29:56.307) and he was over the ball a lot. Yeah. Yeah, I saw that.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset (30:11.996)
Rory responds with three eagles and a birdie in a row and Xander finishes like even or one under the rest of the day and loses by five strokes. So I find, and I’m sure you’ll have more to say, like in those pressure situations, you have to bring a level of trust in your prep, your routine and decisiveness and commitment. Otherwise you run the risk of inviting in overthinking.
Matt Doud (30:12.019) Mm.
Yeah, it’s crazy.
Matt Doud (30:30.547) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Matt Doud (30:35.187) 100 % and was that not incredible round by Rory? I think everybody’s been waiting just to see that, you know, on a Sunday, because he’s one of the most talented players you’ve ever seen. Right? I mean, in the swing is fricking beautiful. I love it.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset (30:40.22)
Yeah, where was it?
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset (30:49.276)
not to interrupt real quick, but they made a comment like Xander was averaging like 315 off the T box and he was still like 30 yards behind Rory.
Matt Doud (30:54.595) Yeah. you’re just bombing it. I know. It’s so great. Well, yeah. So this takes me back to the, the, or the OG, I think golf psychology, which I’m sure you’re familiar with Bob Ritella golf is not a game of perfect, right? And I have three, either three or four chapters in that book highlighted, just like, if you’re only going to skim this book, read these three things. And one of them is train it and trust it. Right. So mentally being in training mode,
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset (31:08.508)
Yeah.
Matt Doud (31:24.595) practice mode, analytical, mechanical breakdown, like what’s happening here, there, and everything in my swing, and then trusting mode, which is about being an athlete, seeing the target and reacting to it, right? Like the way a tennis player does, or a hitter hitting a baseball. It’s like you take what you’ve disciplined, what you’ve trained and practiced, into the live action, and then it’s way more, you know, just.
It’s not conscious thought. You can’t think your way through a golf swing, you know? But you do see that happening, right? When people get in pressure, when something starts to get a little off, our tendency is to revert back to training mode and thinking mechanically. And it’s just you cannot play your best golf in that mode. It’s like no matter how bad your swing feels that day, you’re still gonna play better if you think about the target and the type of shot you wanna hit and just play like an athlete.
Right? Engage your mind and your body that way instead of trying to consciously think your way through it.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset (32:27.548)
I think it was a couple weeks ago, Scotty Scheffler was asked like how he deals with like first T jitters, especially after winning a couple tournaments in a row and like he more or less led with I trust my preparation and routine. He you know, you do all of your swing modifications away from the course when it’s tournament day, you trust that whatever swing shows up that day, you’re going to make the best of so I love hearing you echo that and if you could, you know, reflecting back on your own journey, I guess I should have clarified in the beginning, where’s your handicap at today?
Matt Doud (32:40.339) Yeah. Yeah.
Matt Doud (32:57.139) Right now I just moved back under five like four point seven or something. I’ve been as low as you know scratcher near back in the day when I was playing a bunch practicing a lot, you know, but Yeah, so currently it’s yeah, it’s on a nice little downward trend. It got up around six and it’s now in the four. So yeah Yeah
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset (33:15.1)
Right on, right on. So looking back when you were shooting high 80s, low 90s, what was the biggest breakthrough or difference maker for you that propelled you to becoming someone who shoots consistently in the 70s?
Matt Doud (33:21.747) Mm -hmm.
Matt Doud (33:29.523) Mm -hmm. I started practicing my short game. And that’s a very cliche thing to say, but there’s a couple of things to think about with that that helped me like it better. Right. One is just understanding that that’s half your shots or, you know, from inside 100 yards, at least half. And then really more like two thirds, probably. And then the idea. Here’s the idea that I think people might like.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset (33:34.012)
Mm.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset (33:46.768)
more. Yeah.
Matt Doud (33:59.123) It’s that practicing chips and pitches, you know, helps your full swing in a couple different ways. Whereas beating balls on the range does nothing for your short game. Okay. So a couple of reasons for that. One reason is just physically, you’re still impacting the ball, right? So you’re moving the club through the hitting zone and feeling the interaction of club with the ground and the ball, even if you’re only hitting at 10 yards.
So like I tell people if they only have 10 minutes to warm up before a round, just go hit chip shots, chips and pitches rather than going to the range. It’s gonna serve you much better. Because once you got the feeling of where the impact is and where the ground is and all that good stuff, you can take that into progressively a longer swing. So there’s the physical benefit of it. And then there’s the mental because when you start feeling confident about being able to get up and down, or if I hit it in the bunker,
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset (34:32.636)Mm.
Matt Doud (34:55.539) It’s not really that big of a deal unless I’m buried three feet deep or whatever. Or if I hit in the rough or hit it, I have that 40 yard pitch shot, like I actually kind of know what to do with that now. When you have that in the back of your mind, it makes you more relaxed when you’re hitting the 150 yard eight iron into the green. So you’re more likely to hit better shots.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset (35:15.964) love that
Yeah, actually, it’s it’s wonderful timing that you showed that example from Dr. Bob Rotella in golf is on a game of perfect. He talks about this example where he asked a client of his to review his scorecard the dude shoots a 73 and they’re able to to break it down or like and I’m pulling numbers out of my ass here but like 45 or 50 the shots were not a driver off the tee box. They were all within 120 yards you got to find a way to fall in love or gameify the short game and that’s awesome to hear.
Matt Doud (35:42.579) Yeah, yeah. That’s the same thing I experienced caddying for people, you know, you asked about the mental approach there. A lot of it was honestly just physical. It’s like most guys who get it around the green in two, it’s like they couldn’t do anything with it from there. That was the big problem.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset (35:53.916) Yeah.
Looking back on your career, what is something from specifically through the lens of the mental game that you wish you knew five or 10 years ago that would have expedited your journey to having a sub five handicap?
Matt Doud (36:09.911) It’s almost deeper than mental. It’s like an identity issue. My, well, so like I used to be very wrapped up in my performance and it would affect how I felt about myself and my life, you know, and it wasn’t just in golf, but it really came out in golf. And so if I was struggling, I didn’t realize it consciously, but it was making me feel like unworthy or kind of less than, you know.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset (36:15.74) Tell me more.
Matt Doud (36:38.643) And when I played great, I felt great. When I played crappy, I felt crappy beyond just like, excuse me, that was a bad day, rough day on the golf course, whatever it was like, it affected me more deeply. So then it would cause me to do that whole thing that we were talking about a few minutes ago about trying to make up the last bad hole with the next drive, you know, and that just sort of tends to compound the problem. So the mental thing, whether, you know, you’re going as deep as like,
my personal self -worth and identity, or if you’re just talking about like being able to let a bad shot or a bad hole go, it is that whole idea of, you know, what just happened doesn’t have to affect what’s about to happen. And if you can let that go, you know, and play in the present, that’s gonna be your biggest advantage, I think, mentally.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset (37:30.044)
I think that’s incredible because I can relate personally and with those I coach professionally. This was especially potent in my, when I was playing poker professionally, I, in my early days would, you know, I could play my best poker and lose quite a few grand in a few hours. And I had to learn to be okay with that because some days it would come home and I would take it out on my wife. I would be a bear and a burden to be around. It would just affect my mood for not hours, but.
Matt Doud (37:39.011) yeah.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset (37:57.944)
days and I even remember this is not without going too far off a tangent I’m a big Washington Redskins football fan so like
Matt Doud (38:03.475) Okay, I’m sorry.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset (38:03.964)
when I was in high school, I Yeah, thank you. I know. In high school, it would ruin like half my week when the Redskins lost because I just couldn’t let it go. But I as I’ve matured and surrounded myself with the tools and mentors like I can go shoot whatever on the golf course, anything can happen on the poker table. And I can let it go. I can flip the switch and be present in my family and my personal life. And that’s why I think it’s so crucial. I teach us all the time. Some type of
Matt Doud (38:21.299) Mm -hmm.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset (38:30.236)
post round routine, two to five minutes in the car by yourself can go a long way to help you emotionally off gas so you can regain your composure and show up with a smile, whether you shot an 88 or a 68.
Matt Doud (38:31.923) Hmm. Yeah.
Matt Doud (38:37.908) release. Yeah.
Matt Doud (38:44.339) Yeah, that’s totally true, man. It is. It’s so like these things that we do, they affect us much more deeply than we usually think about or realize. And our cultures hasn’t I mean, lately, it’s getting more we’re getting more aware of it. But for a long time, it’s kind of it’s been like not connected or hard to connect. But yeah, we attach our identity to a lot of external things, you know, and then like you’re saying the Redskins, I mean, I’m in Kansas City Chiefs Kingdom, bro. It’s like.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset (38:54.428) Mm -hmm.
Matt Doud (39:14.803) It’s the pinnacle of fan being attached to the outcome of a team and how they play and you see it all the time. Yeah.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset (39:24.284)
Absolutely. So you’re golfing, you’re teaching, you’re coaching. Like where can people go to learn more about you, connect with you and also follow your golf journey?
Matt Doud (39:35.283) Yeah, you know, it’s interesting. I haven’t done a lot of been really public about my golf journey, but I mean, maybe I should start. I have been doing business like small business coaching and consulting. So I’ve got, I’ve just kind of been operating under my own little label. I’ve got a brand and a team that were in the works getting ready to release, but for now it’s easy to find me under Matt Dow to D O U D then C O O. It’s like chief operating officer.
That’s the type of work I do. Mattdowncoo .com is an easy place to get me or I’m on Facebook and LinkedIn, you know, under myself. Those are probably the easiest places to find me right now. Yeah, and happy to chat golf or business or whatever. I’ve even been thinking about doing like an executive, like golf slash business coaching type of thing. You know, I remember being at Pebble and having these.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset (40:29.212) Mm -hmm.
Matt Doud (40:32.627) pretty like big time CEOs and business guys and gals come through. And when they would struggle at golf, it was like they were a whole different person. Like, you know, they’re super successful, super confident, you know, in their work world in that arena, but they get on the golf course and have a hard time. And it was like, it was kind of we were talking about, I think an identity thing, but anyway, yeah, yeah, I think there’s something to it. There’s something to it. Yeah.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset (40:52.956)
Yeah, you should explore that. Here’s your gentle nudge and reminder. There’s such a great opportunity for it. Yeah, well, awesome. I will include all of those in the show notes, easy access links, go follow connect with Matt. He’s a wealth of knowledge, both golf wise and entrepreneurship wise. And Matt, thank you so much for joining me today.
Matt Doud (41:09.267) Yeah, Paul, thanks for having me, man. It’s been a blast.
Paul Salter | Golf Mindset (41:11.42)
Yeah, absolutely. And for those of you listening, thank you for being here. I sincerely hope you found immense value. If you know somebody, a fellow golfer who would find a lot of insight and wisdom and what Matt shared all of his years caddying all of his incredible golf experience and success himself, share this episode with him or her.
And if you haven’t done so already, it would mean a lot to me if you took 30 seconds to leap a genuine rating and review on Apple podcast, Spotify or wherever you’re listening to today’s episode. Thank you again. Have a wonderful time playing this weekend and I’ll catch you in the next episode.
listen to this next
Start Shooting More Pars Than Bogeys
Subscribe to the newsletter designed to help avid golfers overcome the emotional and mental hazards of their minds to shoot lower scores.
Book a mental game strategy call with me
PAUL SALTER
Paul Salter - known as The Golf Hypnotherapist - is a High-Performance Mindset Coach who leverages hypnosis and powerful subconscious reprogramming techniques to help golfers of all ages and skill levels overcome the mental hazards of their minds so they shoot lower scores and play to their potential.