#5: [Inside the Mind] Dr. Trevor Hirsch, Titleist Performance Institute Medical Level 2 Certified Physical Therapist

Hey Josh, thank you so much for joining me on an episode of the Scratch Golfers Mindset podcast. How are you today?

Josh (00:08.748) Man, I’m so great. It’s awesome to be talking to you. It was great talking to you on mine last week, talking to you today. I can’t get enough of Paul, so this is awesome.

Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (00:17.53)

No, I feel the same way. We might as well make this a weekly staple moving forward, but in all seriousness, grateful you’re here. So much learning from me. I get to learn so much from you, not only from your competitive experience, but all of your golf psychology background and expertise in the coaching realm. And I think it’s best paint the picture. Who is Josh Nichols? Share more with the listeners about your competitive as well as your coaching experience in the golf

Josh (00:22.91) Okay, yeah.

Josh (00:44.686) Yeah. So, that I appreciate the, the T up there. I, who is Josh? So I’ve been playing competitive golf for, I guess since I was 12. So that was, that would have been in 2003. So from early 2000s on through college, I went to, played D one college golf. And then after, after college, I moved back into my parents’ house to,

try to give it a go, try to turn, get good enough to turn pro. And really floundered for two or three years of self diagnosing my own game, thinking I was doing the right stuff, filming every shot, thinking I know what I’m doing. I need to make my swing look this exact way. And none of that was true, ultimately found out. And eventually I threw in the towel and said, I can’t do this on my own. I need an instructor, which is crazy that I would.

have thought that I didn’t need an instructor. went eight years actually without an instructor in the middle of my golf career, which is insane. From the start of college through four years after college, I did not even have an instructor. And so I threw in the towel and I said, Robert Linville is my coach. So Robert, tell me what to do and I will do it. And I don’t care if I get any results ever. I just want to.

be a better golfer and I want you to show me how so he and I worked together for about 14 months. We still work together. We’ll see each other a couple of times a year, but we worked together for about 14 months and I just dove in fully to work it on my game and we’ve talked about it. We’ve interacted about this a little bit

super long days of working on changing my swing, working on the right things, really good variable practice, very, very deliberate practices is what I would term it.

Josh (02:48.974) Ultimately, I got good enough and I won a local event and which just so happens the same event is this coming weekend, but the triad amateur is I won that event the summer of 2017 and then I won our Carolina’s open, which is every state has their state open. like the Florida state open or I don’t know if that’s what it’s called there, but.

So I won our North and South Carolina open, which is a pro event. And it was a, it was a big deal for around here. And then a month later, I went to the U S mid am and made it all the way to the finals of the U S mid am. And I was one 36 whole match away from playing in the masters and the U S open. had I, had I won that my life would be probably be very different right now.

And so it’s, funny. I’ve talked to the guy that won that year, Matt Parziali. He, said, it’s crazy how, and I don’t know if he was rubbing it on my face or not, but he said, it’s crazy how our lives probably took a real fork in the road there. His life. He played in the masters. He’s exempt into this tournament and all these other things. And I’m just Josh now. So I don’t know. It’s, it’s funny how that, how that worked. But from there, from 2017, I, I decided, okay, maybe golf.

Pro golf is not my ultimate desire. I had met my now wife, then girlfriend just a few months before that tournament, before the US Mid -Am. And I kind of realized there’s a lot more to life than golf. And that helped me be able to kind of set my clubs to the side.

At the very height of my golf game at the, when I was seeing the best results I’ve ever experienced, be able to set my golf clubs to the side and say, you know what? I’m okay. Not playing fully as a full -time thing. And at that point, well, I need a job, right? I needed something to do. cause golf is not it anymore. So I asked my instructor, Robert, what should I do? And.

Josh (05:00.972) Took me about a year, but eventually he said, I think you’d be really good at how you got better, which is primarily mental game psychology stuff. So he said, here’s a few players, start working with them. And that’s been about five years. And now I’ve got a, I would call it a really decently successful golf psychology coaching business.

It’s my sole income. It’s what I do as a full -time thing. So it’s kind of been a crazy journey of golf and then now giving back to the game, still gaining from the game, but kind of turning around and using my experience and expertise to help others. So yeah, it’s been a cool journey.

Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (05:50.392)

Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that with us. And for those of you listening, I’ll make it abundantly clear that Josh is very humble. And you’ll see in the show notes when I link his podcast and his mental regrip newsletter, like he’s an incredible writer. He has such an in depth knowledge of the game, not only from his playing experience, but he literally took on the role, the task, the priority of understanding

depth of psychology behind some of these changes and probably things I would argue you were doing maybe at the time when you were playing without even knowing what you were doing and now you’ve got the psychology behind it to back it up. So highly, highly encourage everybody listening to subscribe and listen and consume his content because I have learned a tremendous amount and I’m curious. I mean, there’s so many directions I want to go, but I want to start here going back a little bit in your journey. It’s those final 36 holes. It is your, you know,

Josh (06:21.486) accidentally.

Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (06:39.514)

for whatever lack of better word, fork in the road, looking back, like take us through what was Josh experiencing and feeling emotionally, mentally prior to those 36 holes.

Josh (06:53.018) Mmm. Yeah, the the night before, I mean, you know, the the whole the whole thing, the cliche is I didn’t sleep very good. I was I was FaceTiming my girlfriend and. Talking, talking through kind of the enormity of it all, the importance of it all, but also.

And something I’ve learned now, I was trying to downplay it. I was trying to say, it’s just another round of golf. It’s just another, another match. I’ve already won five of the, or I don’t know how many I’d won up to that point. And I’ve, I’ve played lots of good golf. I’ve played against lots of good players. So this is just another thing. So I was really trying to stamp it down and not make it too big of a deal. And that, you know, was me.

keeping the pressure in the bottle, right? The soda can and shaking it up and it kind of, not that it exploded or anything the next day and I melted down, actually played decently well, but I never really kind of looked at what I was feeling. But either way, I knew that night before, I’ve just got to play well one more day and I can play in the Masters.

And that was, that was an exhausting week of, mean, I walked every day as you do in usj events and it was 36, 36, 30. It was just a bunch of bunch of golf. was nine rounds and seven days or something. So it was a, it was a ridiculous amount of pressure, hot golf. So I was exhausted. Like that was kind of really like I’ve made it to the final and I can kind of.

I’m exempt into the next years, next three ones of these. So I’m kind of cool now. I’ve just kind of, this is cherry on top. So I wouldn’t say I had the best mentalities that I would. If I was talking to me now, I wouldn’t, I probably wouldn’t say the same things, but I was feeling all the kind of the cliches, the anxiety about how it might go. The, worry to really blow

Josh (09:06.264) the potential excitement to do well, but almost like a that’s not gonna happen, right? I don’t know if I really deserve to win a USGA championship. yeah, was a big, if memory serves correctly that I was feeling a lot of that kind of stuff.

Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (09:23.404)

Yeah, what a collection of different emotions. I mean, there’s the one end where you’re daydreaming about how different your future is gonna be, the excitement. I’m sure you’re reflecting back on all of the sacrifices you’ve made, the time, energy, and emotions you’ve had to put forth to get here, yet simultaneously, and this is my word, not yours, part of you is probably scared shitless. Like, my gosh, what a pressure -filled moment. Like, I have to make the most of it, but wait a second, am I deserving, am I worthy of this?

knowing what you know now, gaining so much from your coaching background too. And you’re working with competitive golfers facing similar, if not greater pressure moments. If you put your coaching hat on for a moment, what would you say to your younger self or how would you redirect the focus of a client in a similar position?

Josh (10:08.622) Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would start by acknowledging the enormity of it. And I know I mentioned I kind of talked through that with my girlfriend, but really it wasn’t. For one, didn’t know like, you know, 99 % of the Earth’s population have no clue, maybe more than that, have no clue even what this means or matters. So.

So I was almost trying to explain how important it could be to her, but I wasn’t really acknowledging how important it would be to me and, and how, if it were to, if I was to be successful, how much it would mean and how much it would change my life. I didn’t probably back then I thought acknowledging those things will add pressure,

The pressure was there, whether I was acknowledging it or not, I was just choosing to ignore it. So if I had, if I could talk to myself now, I would say, let’s start by acknowledging how much pressure you feel and how important and vital and monumental this really feels to you. And be okay with that, be okay with how important it is, because it

Right. It’s not just any other round of golf. It’s the final of a USDA championship, right? It’s, it’s much, it’s much more important to you. So you’re not going to feel the same. All of my attempts back then were probably to try to get myself to feel the same as any old round of golf. And that set me up to kind of fight my feelings during that final, right? I shouldn’t be so nervous, right? I shouldn’t be so scared to blow it.

Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (11:53.108) Yep.

Josh (11:58.958) I should be calm, should be relaxed and that’s unfair. So that’s what I would start with, acknowledge how much pressure you feel and be cool with it. And that’s, I don’t know that it would have necessarily made me play better. I shot a 69 in the opening 18, it’s a 36 hole match. I shot 69 in the opening 18 and I was six down after the first 18. So I don’t know if I could have won.

under any circumstance. So he shot 63 or something in that opening 18. So I don’t know if anybody could have beat him. But had I come in with a more accepting mentality of how I feel, I could have start off with a birdie and he starts off with a par and all of a sudden things are a little bit different this match. So who knows what could have happened, but that’s what I would tell myself now.

Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (12:54.874)

Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that because what stands out to me is like, I love how you’ve packaged it like you’re acknowledging the enormity of the situation. And this is something I harp on with my clients as well. Because when what I found personally and professionally is when you take the time to acknowledge, it’s almost like you’re putting a stamp of like validation approval you have earned to be here. And it’s easier said than done. But it’s like, by the way, the last 15 years, you’ve been working for this

take an opportunity to soak it in because it as you can test to better than I can, it’s gone in the blink of an eye. So I love how you framed it because that almost helps to solidify wait, I do deserve to be here. I’ve been working for it. I’m here I’m going to accept it. I’m going to be present in this situation and let it unfold the way it’s supposed

Josh (13:38.508) Yeah, I definitely didn’t say you deserve this in that moment. And in fact, I probably said the opposite of, I don’t know if I do deserve this. Like I’m just some kid that’s trying to turn pro and I live as a full -time golfer. So I don’t even know if I’m, you know, I’m playing against mid -ams who have jobs and have

have kids and have to, I don’t know, it’s almost like, yes, I have worked harder than maybe other people, but that’s almost, it’s almost unfair that I’ve had so much time to practice and work on my game, whereas others don’t, right? So I had that going in there too, and I don’t even know if I’ve mentioned that yet. it’s, there’s like a, I’m not worthy to be here. I don’t belong here in some ways.

and it’s almost unfair that I’m here and none of that was helpful.

Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (14:41.85)

Yeah, that is a collection of the narratives I often deal with in my work is that, know, am I worthy, deserving and capable? There’s this fear, there’s this identity crisis. If I achieve X, Y or Z, now I have all these expectations of sustaining or even surpassing this new found level of success. So incredibly normal at the end of the day, human experience, excuse me. So I hear you on that. And after those 36 holes,

Josh (15:02.541) Mmm…

Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (15:09.006)

Was there a thought about attempting again next year? Were you even more fired up to push harder and harder? I know you had just met your now wife at that time. Or were you starting to feel a little deflation in that passion, that fire, if you

Josh (15:25.102) Yeah, that is a good one because I kind of made that conscious choice to set golf aside. My fire to work on my game dramatically decreased. I don’t think it was, deflation wouldn’t be the right word. It would be, I had an amazing experience.

but golf is just not top priority anymore. So I’m not deflated as much as I am ready to move on to different things. so it was a proactive choice rather than a reactive to how this went. But I still look back with regrets and whether or not I should, I do.

Josh (16:18.156) the following year, because that was in the fall. So the following the winter and the spring, I got invited to play a bunch of really high profile amateur events and I declined all of them. And that was one, because they would have been expensive and I didn’t have a job at the time.

So I maybe even couldn’t pay for them, but two, was, that’s not what I do anymore. So it would be irresponsible for me to leave my girlfriend and go do these things that aren’t important to me anymore. And I’m doing air quotes for those listening. So I was, again, was suppressing what I really truly loved.

as a way to, I don’t know, and this gets into maybe some deeper counseling things that I still talk to my counselor about to this day is I’m trying to mask the things that I really love in an effort to impress my girlfriend or something. Like, no, I just want to spend all my time with you. So that’s getting off on a tangent, but the idea is,

I proactively chose to move on.

but it was as a suppression of something that I loved. Yes, I kind of wanted a break because I had been going hard for 15 years, but I still loved it. And I was still afraid that I would lose that part of me if I took too long of a time away. And ultimately I kind of did. Now, eventually by making it to the finals of the US Mid -Am, I…

Josh (18:08.03) I was exempt into the following year’s U S amateur, which was at Pebble beach. And that was like, I actually found that out on the third hole of the final of the U S mid am the whatever some USDA guy said, so what do you think about getting to play Pebble beach next year? And I said, what are you talking about? you’re exempt into the U S it’s a Pebble beach. And I was floored and honestly,

That kind of put me into coast mode because I’m like, well, I’m good. Right. Like I don’t need to do anything today because I get to play Pebble beach next year. So yeah, there is a lot of things going on with that event that, that I would just not, I would coach myself very differently now, but getting to that U S U S AM, and I know I’m rambling a little, the, getting to that U S AM, I was nowhere near prepared.

Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (18:59.054) You’re great.

Josh (19:03.382) I hadn’t touched a club probably in a, in several months at that point, maybe hit, hit balls once or twice going into the USA and at Pebble beach. So I have lots of regrets about back then. but at the time it was a proactive choice. This is how I want to be. So yeah, I yeah, there’s, there’s some, there’s some deep things that I’m still working on from that being my identity and that, and the choices I’ve made.

Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (19:30.052)

I admire your courage and vulnerability to share that. And it’s just such a good reflection of like coaches themselves doing the deep work to learn. And you’re still trying to absorb as many of the learning lessons you can from that experience. I mean, you know better than I do. There’s no shortage of them. So I admire that you keep going back to extract, reflect, and improve yourself. So cool. So, you’re

Josh (19:51.324) Yeah, it’s a sorry to interrupt it is it’s an absolute constant in my life still I’m I mean I’m still in a lot of ways hanging on to that success and look at me I’m that guy that did this thing and

And if we want to call it claim to fame, my claim to fame is finishing second in a tournament, right? It’s kind of silly when you think about it. And, and I still identify as that person every time I go play, I should still be that good. So it was, it was that big of a thing in my life to where I’m, I’m absolutely still working through it. So it’s,

Yeah, I don’t, I don’t know if it comes through through the mic, but it’s, it’s a very, very personal thing for me still. And in great ways, but also in, in ways that I could improve. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, of course.

Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (20:43.78)

Thank you again for sharing that. Yeah, no, really, really helpful. And I know the listeners will appreciate it just as much as I have. if we now kind of pivot our conversation to allow you to shine as brightly as you do in your coaching capacity. One thing I’d really love to hear your perspective on is, and I’m going to try to be very intentional with my word choice, the response the next step after either a poor

or just an incredibly subpar round, subpar, not in a good way in this context, a poor performance, if you will. So focusing first on, I’ve made a mistake, I’ve shanked my T -shatter and I’m in the rough again, I’ve chunked my chip, there’s a lot of pressure to play my best. How are you coaching your clients to move on after something like

Josh (21:12.13) No.

Josh (21:30.314) Yeah, moving on from from bad shots and poor performances. It usually starts with acceptance where. Mistakes are normal. Mistakes are human. Wishing that you wouldn’t make mistakes, that’s. As Susan David in emotional agility says, that’s a dead person desire, right?

Only dead people never hit bad golf shots, right? So, or non golfers, right? So you would have to quit the game to never hit a bad shot. So starting with acceptance and saying, I, any shot could be a bad golf shot. Any round could be a bad round of golf. can’t, I can’t guarantee good results. can’t guarantee good shots, but what can I guarantee? What are.

some things I can control and that list is very short. know things like pre -shot routine, choosing your target, commitment to your target, choosing your club, those kind of things.

those once you’ve accepted that that shot happened or could happen you come back to this is what I can control this is what I’m going to focus on and that that allows you to move on and be present

After the after the shot has happened. I hit the shot. Okay, that happened. I’m not denying that it happened. I’m acknowledging again, again back to the acknowledgement of the importance of the US mid am acknowledgement that the bad shot happened, right? Not ignoring it, not suppressing it saying that happened now. And it’s disappointing, right? I’m I feel emotions related to it. I’m frustrated, disappointed. I’m even angry, but.

Josh (23:29.314) The shot is normal and human. The emotions are normal and human. Now, what’s important to me now? What’s relevant now? It’s to talk to my playing partners. It’s to enjoy nature as I’m walking to my next shot, whether it’s in the woods or to where I’ve got to drop it or back to the tee after the out of bounds shot. It’s I’m present now. What’s important right now? And I think it’s a Gio Valiente said,

the the when acronym what’s important now that’s as a reminder to what what is relevant to me right now that past shot is not relevant to me anymore what do I have to do now and and then you’re able to move on and be present

Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (24:17.498)

I’m curious, either in your own game or with your clients, do you encourage, discourage a moment, a 10 second period to feel that frustration or anger? Because I love how you said this, I totally agree. That emotion is a normal human response. It’s okay, it’s normal, and kind of circling back to what you said earlier, it’s the repression of those emotions that lead to more trouble down the road. It’s an inevitable outburst of emotion that will really derail you.

If someone is coming to you, if a client is like, just feel so much frustration after a poor shot. Is there a moment you encourage them? You’ve got 10 seconds, do what you need to do and then move

Josh (24:56.469) Yeah, and I don’t know if it’s a if it’s a prescriptive amount of time. A lot of the a lot of the players that I talked to have heard someone like Tiger and his you get you get 10 steps after the ball and then it’s time to move on. And I don’t even know if that’s that helpful, because after those 10 seconds, after those 10 steps.

your emotion doesn’t just stop like cold. Like there is still lingering emotion. And in the same way for me now looking back at my US Mid -Am experience, I still feel emotions. I can’t just choose to stop feeling emotions. I have to acknowledge them and work through them. So maybe your walk back to the T is you working through your emotion

Okay, I feel this way. Why do I feel this way? Why is it so strong? Well, because I felt that I needed to hit this fairway. I felt that it was detrimental to hit this out of bounds. Is it really? Is your round over now? Did you have to hit this fairway in order to have a good rest of your round? No. So by working through your emotions, however long it takes, in my opinion, will better allow you to be more present the next time you have to hit a shot. Because now you’re not.

like trying to stop your emotions and saying, I’ll get back to you later, but right now I have to hit this shot. So I’m trying to ignore and suppress these emotions. You’ve worked through them. And the cool thing about golf is it gives you that opportunity to do that. You get two, three, four minutes between each shot to, think about your own thoughts and work through things. And golf brings that out of us, right? It gives us an awesome opportunity to work through our own stuff. So

I think working through it, however long it takes. I would never say you’re not allowed to feel it, but I also wouldn’t say you need to stop feeling it after 10 seconds.

Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (27:05.262)

love that. is there, it’s gonna be a two part question. A, is there a preferred or even personal approach you’ve used to kind of fine tune that emotional working through experience? And B, is there any type of cue or trigger you recommend to kind of refocus as someone then begins to prepare their pre -shot routine for the subsequent shot?

Josh (27:27.533) Mm -mm.

I on the cue part, and maybe this could kind of answer, cover both of those. For me, I always had a phrase.

I would say pick a target, let it rip, accept the results. I would say that after, before he shot, that was a, I think a Trevor Immelman similar phrase when he won the eight masters, he said something similar. So one of my friends said that to me one time and I said, I like that because it’s kind of a, gets you back to what’s important now. Right? Well, I got to pick a target. I have to let this go to get this ball to go to that target. And then wherever it goes is where it goes. So.

That’s, I think that’s the way to, okay, I’ve worked through these emotions. I’ve processed that shot. That shot’s in the past. Now it’s time to be here. Now it’s time to do my job right now. So you could say any kind of phrase to yourself of whether it’s the win acronym of what’s important now, or what do I got to do now? What’s relevant now? Whatever those things are to kind of reel in your attention from.

the past to right now. And I think if you’re working through your emotions as a result of a shot, I think you’re present along the way because you’re tapping into what am I feeling right now? And I’m not so tied up on that shot anymore. Now I’m thinking about what are my emotions right now? And as long as you’re genuinely paying attention to what you’re feeling, you’re present.

Josh (29:15.298) Right? If you’re paying attention to what’s going on in your body, you’re in the present. So if you are doing that at all times and you’re always present, then once it’s time to hit the next shot, you’re able to easily step into the shot and be present.

Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (29:31.277)

I love that and it’s a perfect segue. I want to get your perspective on a concept everybody listening is incredibly familiar with that you bring a unique perspective with both your playing psychology and as well as your coaching experience here. The pre shot routine. We know the basic benefits and purpose behind it I want to hear from your words perhaps even through the lens of presence on.

why this mundane set of three, five, maybe six steps, depending on the person is literally that essential to playing to your potential.

Josh (30:03.852) Yeah. So what I, what I usually say, and I think what you mentioned this earlier on of, probably did a lot of these psychology things back in my playing best playing days without even realizing it kind of accidentally. So what I would, what I would say to a player now is the purpose of the pre -shot routine is to get you freed up, to get you, to get you feeling confident, which is to say,

I this this ball could go anywhere and I’ll be okay like an like a like a deeper confidence that I’m okay no matter what happens here and to be present and to have a good target right to not be mindlessly hitting it out there but haven’t chose a thoughtful target.

So the pre -shot routine is to accomplish those kind of bigger values. Now the actual details of the pre -shot routine do not matter, right? There’s no prescriptive do this for this amount of seconds. I don’t even think that it has to be the same every time. Now there is, that’s

That could be a controversial statement to based on what you hear out there of you should be able to put a stopwatch to your routine and it should be the same every time. I think it might end up that way. It might end up being stopwatch exact right correct amount of time, but I don’t think you should go in with that intention. I need to make my routine 22 seconds every time.

I think if you say, what am I trying to accomplish here with this routine? Okay, I’m trying to be present. I’m trying to be freed up. I’m trying to be accepting of the result. And I’m trying to pick a good target and a good club. if I do the routine that helps me accomplish those things enough, it will end up probably being very similar time from shot to shot.

Josh (32:11.98) So that’s how I instruct about a pre -shot routine. It’s much more open -ended and much more flexible.

Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (32:19.258)

I like that a lot and I’ve never heard that perspective and I appreciate you sharing it. For me, it’s like you’ve now relieved a little pressure that it has to be the same every time because I talk a lot about, I know you’ve heard this before, like the anyway shot where something feels not quite right but we swing anyway and it’s because perhaps we’re married to this 17 .6 second pre -shot routine or we only get one practice swing. Only one, that’s it.

Josh (32:27.679) Mm. Right.

Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (32:45.432)

So I love hearing that it’s refreshing, it’s relieving, because I know as I’m still early on in my playing career, as you know, is like sometimes my first practice swing is not as fluid or smooth or confidently producing the results I want. So I need another. And if I feel married to the idea, nope, you only get one. I’m rushed, I’m tense, I’m tight. That produces a bad swing, then I’m frustrated, and then we get off track with our mental goals. So I appreciate you sharing that.

Josh (32:45.799) Yeah.

Josh (33:11.548) Right, that brings up maybe the the counter side of it is

Josh (33:20.714) It’s okay if you don’t feel freed up. It’s okay if your practice swing wasn’t great. It’s okay if it’s hard to pick a good target.

Josh (33:37.068) So the idea that I was saying of your pre -shot routine should get you freed up, should get you feeling accepting, should help you be present and all these things. Sometimes you just won’t feel that those ways because I mean, if you’re on the first tee of the final of a US mid -am, you’re not feeling freed up. So when you say, I need to feel freed up, you’re probably gonna be over the shot.

Thinking I shouldn’t be swinging now. I’m not freed up. I can’t pull the trigger. What am I doing? And then I swing so then you hit an anyway shot for a different reason so I think I think going into a pre -shot routine with kind of ultimate acceptance

I can, I’m allowed to feel any kind of way. I’m going to feel any kind of way. I can’t control whether or not I feel pressure. I can’t control whether or not I feel nervous. Can I accept it and see it as it is and then do my routine anyway? So I think accepting tension, accepting being distracted.

Actually allows you to diminish the tension and diminish the distraction and be more present So there is there is a fine line between you should be freed up, but also it’s okay if you’re not so there’s there is some nuance there that Is probably best talked about on a person -by -person basis when I do my pre -shot routine. I just never feel freed up Okay, what’s going on there? It’s okay. If you don’t feel freed up, right? You’re not always going to

but what can we do to help you get as close to freed up as possible?

Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (35:22.318)

Yeah, that’s awesome. I mean, I feel like everything keeps coming back to a strong degree of acknowledgement and acceptance. And it’s almost like if those two variables are in place, it’s like bowling, you know, there’s no shortage of information out there. As long as you have bumpers up guidelines, if you will, to get you in the right direction, you’re clear on your goal is that you just express so clearly. Nothing else has to be perfect or look a certain way or what social media or someone tells you, you get to develop your own flow and that even may look different from swing to swing.

It’s

Josh (35:52.876) Yes, that’s right. Yeah, it is. When you have margin for error, that’s where freedom comes in. When you’re allowed to not feel exactly perfect all the time, that’s when actual freedom comes. We think the way to be most freed up is to feel perfect, is to check all the boxes and feel just right on every shot. And that’s constricting.

Right? Cause now what if I don’t feel perfect and you’re not going to, right? I’m playing, like I mentioned, I’m playing a tournament this weekend. I’m not going to feel perfectly freed up on that first tee. It’s been a long time since I played a competitive round. I’m going to feel very nervous. I might even feel anxious and worried, but I have to be able to accept that and say, I’m allowed to feel that way. And that’s going to help me be more freed up, be as freed up as possible. Right? So.

acceptance of not feeling perfect allows you to feel as good as possible. Maybe is the most succinct way that I could think to say it.

Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (36:57.722)

I like that a lot. Yeah, really well said and using, you know, perhaps your personal prep for this upcoming weekend or just for the listener out there who has, you know, a member guest, a tournament or even just around with executives, they’re networking, they don’t want to embarrass themselves. Like, how do you coach through preparation either the night before or the morning of to help mentally prepare to play their best

Josh (37:25.183) I definitely like some form of strategy prep where sometime today or tomorrow I’m going to pull out an app called Shot Pattern. It’s an app that have had a cool sponsorship relationship with them in the past. Not anymore. I just love the app and I think it’s the best for what it does.

So I’m going to go through every hole and see, here’s where I should be aiming. Here’s the club I should be hitting based on the width of the fairway, blah, And so then I’m just that much more prepared for the next day

And I’ve played this tournament a bunch of this used to be my home course. So I know the course really, really well, but there’s still a level of uncertainty and there always will be, but I’m going to do as much homework as I can to reduce the uncertainty as much as possible. And so a kind of pre -round strategy type of thing, I think is really valuable. Getting all your little stuff in order, packing your food.

Right. We’ve talked about diet when you’re on my podcast. And, so I’m being intentional about my food, not just like morning of throwing stuff in my bag and hoping it’s good. I’m going to actually plan what I’m going to eat and when I’m going to eat and how much of it and get my right amount of golf balls, make sure my clubs are all good and clean. And, and again, that’s, that’s a simple way to remove some of that uncertainty as much as I can control.

Right? So you’re trying to do all of your controllable things where it’s uncontrollable how the weather will be. It’s uncontrollable. Maybe who I’m going to play with it’s uncontrollable how I’m going to feel on that first tee, but there are controllables, right? I’m, I can go and have my golf balls marked. I don’t worry. I need to hit this one straight and not in the woods. Cause then if I have to hit a provisional, I have to mark the next ball. So like little details where

Josh (39:30.498) You’ve got things a little bit more certain and some of these could be personality things of maybe I’m a little bit more type a than the next guy that so I need right. So I need to make sure everything is just right. And that’s that could border on you’re trying to make things too perfect when you can never really be perfect. But I think there are good, some good controllables where I

Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (39:38.714) So.

Josh (39:59.714) Here’s something that I have control over and I’m going to do my best to prepare for it. And those things, I think have an awesome benefit of a mental prep. I’m ready, right? I’m as ready as I could be given my circumstances, given my two year old and my lack of playing recently and my just, I haven’t played a tournament in a year. So given all of those circumstances, I’m as ready as I could be.

Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (40:28.634)

love that. And really what stands out to me is I appreciate how much you prioritize and led with like the pre course strategy management, you already know what club you’re teeing off with at each hole, you know where you’re aiming as much as you possibly can. And you kind of already know like it’s driver here three would there which will give me a seven or a nine as my approach shot. And I find that to be an incredibly low hanging fruit opportunity, whether your handicap is a 25 or a 15.

When you’re in a calm, logical state of mind, you’re much more relaxed, you’re gonna make the best decision. When you’re trying to decide in the heat of the moment, your emotional volume is incredibly high. Even if it’s good emotional volume, if you start like, for me, starting well would be par par. For you, maybe it’s birdie birdie, but then you’re like, I can play driver on this hole, I don’t need to downgrade to three wood. Then you start getting carried away, the ego’s making decisions. Like, I think there is an opportunity to save.

four, five, maybe six strokes by creating a plan the night before and perhaps most importantly yet most challenging, sticking to it the entire 18 holes.

Josh (41:31.89) Mmm. Yeah, knowing that you’ve created a plan can inject some of that logic. And that’s, think that’s a Jared Tindler thing. We talked about him, where you inject the logic. And so your plan that you created beforehand when you were logical helps you inject that logic when you’re emotional. So you say, I’ve got this plan and I’m

Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (41:40.525) It is,

Josh (41:56.726) I don’t feel like doing this plan right now, but I know this is right. And you think of like a, like a, a sail, sailboat captain in the middle of a storm there. It’s total chaos. have no clue what to do. I would have no clue what to do, but they have their plan. We got to do this with the jib and the thing. And we got to, I don’t know any turn. There’s some crazy terms in sailing, but they know their plan. Right.

And they say, if it’s this, we do this. And, again, just as all these things, which are very nuanced, that could get too rigid. And we have to somehow find the athleticism and the sport nature of it and, the flexibility to change our plan when it matters. Like, you know, if we’re talking about diet and I, I packed a PB and J for the sixth hole. I mean, what if I,

What I don’t know what if I’m not hungry or something? Maybe you should eat it anyway. Maybe you maybe you don’t know how hungry you are or well, I just ate something from the fifth hole. So I’m not hungry. So there has to be some kind of flexibility. But I think more often than not, our emotions take us out of that logical frame of mind and we stray from our plans of sticking to a plan that you created.

the day before, the week before, I think that’s usually the most valuable way to

Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (43:30.33)

Absolutely well said and kudos to you for pulling out the word jib in your sailing description. Like I don’t know anything either. No, and I was instantly brought back to the scene in Wedding Crashers where Owen Wilson has no idea what he’s doing trying to work the sailboat to impress the girl.

Josh (43:36.592) Bet you didn’t think we’d hear that today.

Josh (43:43.254) Hmm. That’s a good one. huh. Exactly. He did not have a plan. Yes. All right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s good.

Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (43:51.174)

No, no plan at all, but he had a team so a good reminder teamwork makes the dream work Yeah, Josh I could talk to you for hours and I’m sure we will absolutely do this again because it’s been incredibly Insightful. I thank you so much for your time and the wisdom you shared Where would you like people to go to connect with you learn from you and to begin working with

Josh (44:15.084) Yeah, well, I appreciate this. This hour has completely flown by. This is a lot of fun. So I think the best way to follow me, or maybe two best ways would be one is Twitter or X. I’m at Josh Luke Nichols. That’s where I kind of do my most frequent interaction with the general public. And then I also have my podcast, The Mental Golf Show. That

That I’m trying to get more regular into it’s, like I’ve, I’ve mentioned, I’ve, I’ve been very busy and successful with coaching, which is an awesome thing, but it’s, it’s kind of taken my attention away from doing the podcast, which I love doing. And I always get a lot of great feedback from the podcast. So, I’m trying to get more into doing that. we’ve got Twitter at Josh Luke Nichols and podcast, the mental golf show. Those are, those are probably the two best places to find me.

Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (45:12.859)

I’ll have that linked below for everyone. I’ll also link your newsletter because I enjoy getting that every week as well. Lots of great tidbits and even backlinks to older articles and newsletters you’ve written which are so valuable.

Josh (45:17.858) Nice, thank

Josh (45:22.911) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Same to you. I, I, I can, I have a firsthand appreciation of, of putting stuff out for people and, it’s not always difficult and don’t make any money off of a lot of these things. So I, for, for Paul, Paul’s listeners, the, the effort that he goes to, put out good stuff is, is incredible too. So I I’ve enjoyed seeing Paul’s stuff.

Paul Salter | High-Performance Mindset Coach (00:02.982)

Josh (45:49.219) Yeah, man.

Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (46:13.754)

for this show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you are listening to today’s episode. Thank you again for listening. Have a fantastic round ahead and we’ll catch you in the next episode.