#39: [Inside the Mind] Jon Sherman: Mismanaged Expectations, Pattern Recognition, and Having More Fun to Play Better Golf
Episode Introduction and Summary
In this episode of The Scratch Golfer’s Mindset Podcast, Paul Salter sits down with Jon Sherman, a seasoned player-coach with nearly 30 years of experience in the game of golf. Together, they dive deep into the mental side of golf, discussing common pitfalls golfers face—like mismanaged expectations, frustration after poor shots, and the struggle to enjoy the game when things go wrong.
Jon shares his personal journey, from competing in club championships to overcoming mental challenges on the course. A key focus is how to overcome the yips, those frustrating mental blocks that can sabotage your game. Through practical advice, they explain how hypnosis for golf can help golfers stay calm under pressure, shift their focus, and improve their performance.
Paul and Jon explore mindset strategies like reframing negative thoughts, managing emotions, and practicing patience and grit during tough rounds. They emphasize how tools like golf hypnosis, reflection, and better decision-making can reduce frustration and help golfers perform at their best, whether you’re aiming to break 80 or just trying to enjoy the game more.
Tune in to learn how you can enhance your mental game with actionable tips from experts, including insights on how to shift expectations, apply persistence, and use hypnosis to improve focus and emotional resilience both on and off the course.
P.S. If you’re interested in learning more about how mindset coaching and hypnotherapy can help you get unstuck from the proverbial bunker of poor performance on the course and in your business, click here to schedule a coaching discovery call with me.
More About Jon
Jon is the author of the international best-selling Foundations of Golf series. He also is the co-host of the Sweet Spot podcast, a PGA Tour coach, and the owner of Practical Golf.
Purchase “The Four Foundations of Golf” here.
Connect with Jon:
- Website: https://practical-golf.com/
- Twitter (X): @practicalgolf
- Instagram: @practical.golf
Key Takeaways:
- Golf should primarily be about enjoyment and fun.
- Mismanaged scoring expectations can rob golfers of joy.
- It’s important to set realistic goals based on your practice and play frequency.
- Reflection after rounds is crucial for improvement.
- Emotions play a significant role in golf performance.
- Grit and persistence can help golfers recover from poor rounds.
- Golf serves as a mirror for personal development and life lessons.
- Incremental progress is key; quick fixes are often misleading.
- Finding a balance between enjoyment and seriousness is essential.
- Creating a supportive environment for yourself on the course is important.
Key Quotes:
- “Golf is a beautiful, powerful personal development tool.”
- “Experience is so crucial in this game because golf’s kind of a bizarre activity with all the things that can take place on the course and you just have to be accepting and prepared for all of that.”
- “Incremental progress is the key to golf.”
- “You know, sometimes you need to take a big step backwards, be like, you know, no matter what happens here, things are going to be okay. I’m going to go home. I think about my wife and kids, like they’ll won’t care that much in either direction.”
- “You can’t expect to play this game and not have emotions.”
- “Yeah, information, yeah, information isn’t the issue anymore. Yeah, it’s a mindset problem. It’s a habit problem, discipline.”
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For feedback, questions, or to take me out for a round of golf, shoot me an email or connect with me on social media:
- Instagram: @thegolfhypnotherapist
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Time Stamps:
- 00:00: Introduction to John and His Golf Journey
- 03:12: The Importance of Enjoyment in Golf
- 05:52: Managing Expectations and Reality in Golf
- 08:57: Setting Realistic Goals and Understanding Your Game
- 11:53: Reflecting on Rounds: Key Questions and Insights
- 14:47: The Role of Emotions in Golf Performance
- 17:52: Finding Grit and Persistence on the Course
- 21:06: Golf as a Personal Development Tool
- 23:55: Incremental Progress: The Key to Improvement
- 26:57: The Balance of Enjoyment and Seriousness in Golf
- 30:09: Final Thoughts and Highlights from the Year
Transcript:
The Golf Hypnotherapist (00:02.978)
Hey John, thank you so much for joining me on the show. How are you today?
Jon (00:06.179)
I’m good, Paul. Thanks for the invite. Looking forward to our talk here.
The Golf Hypnotherapist (00:09.834)
Absolutely. And you are perhaps a man who needs no introduction in the golf space. However, I want you to take an opportunity, maybe insert humble brag here, but let’s begin with building a foundation for our listeners. You who is John? What is your experience in relationship with the game of
Jon (00:27.493)
I’m a golfer. I always like to make that clear to people. I’m not a swing instructor. I just like to think of myself as a player coach. I’ve been obsessed with this game since I was 12 years old. I’m 41 now, so it’s almost been three decades. And yeah, I’ve had my ups and downs in the game. and about 10 years ago, I had the idea to just start writing about golf from, from a player’s perspective. I thought that.
the golf swing had been covered and that was more than well covered at that point. So why don’t I explore some different topics that I felt have helped me become a happier, a better golfer, whether that’s practice, expectation management, picking smarter targets and talking about all the crazy stuff that goes through our head on a golf course. So yeah, I’ve been doing that for the last decade. Wrote a lot on my website, turned that into a book, The Four Foundations of Golf. We have a podcast and
And love, mainly I just, I love helping golfers of all levels just be happier and have a better relationship with the game. And of course lower their scores. And I just try and do that kind of with my own philosophy and spin on things.
The Golf Hypnotherapist (01:44.566)
I’ll be the first to say you do that very well. And something that resonated with me once I first came across your content was how much you place a priority on enjoyment, having fun. You and I both know golf is such an interesting game. We start playing for maybe the challenge, the camaraderie, but at the core of it is the fun. And in a matter of milliseconds, that fun can quickly turn into amplified frustration. So I’m curious as you’ve navigated your journey and helped so many others.
What mistakes or pitfalls are avid golfers making that are robbing them of that initial joy they want salt in the game?
Jon (02:20.345)
I mean, there’s a million of them. think one of the main one is mismanaged scoring expectations. I was just writing another newsletter this morning, kind of a chapter from my book where I was reminding people that, you know, no matter how good we get at this game, we have a range of scoring outcomes. Even PGA Tour players, they could shoot.
15 strokes differential within 24 hours. So no matter how good you get at this game, there’s this wide gap between your best and your worst. And I think most golfers go out there, and I did for a long time, judging themselves for the day of success and fun if they only shoot on the lower end of that range. And unfortunately, there’s a reason why those are low probability events. So I’m trying to rationalize this with people. If you go out there expecting or only satisfied with the low probability event,
then you’re going to set yourself up for 80, 85 % of the time, not being happy with it. So we have to figure out different ways to enjoy the game. I of course want people to shoot low scores and have fun doing that, but we also have to figure out other ways to enjoy the act of being out there and what we really want out of the game and have a healthy relationship with golf. And that’s hard to do. I try and find different ways to connect with people on that.
The Golf Hypnotherapist (03:41.388)
I love what you said. Like it’s almost like we need to bring an intention to golf that allows us to find fulfillment and enjoyment completely independent of the score we shoot that day. I mean, I’m sure you can relate. know earlier as I started playing again earlier this year, I had a bad day, which there were very many at my early beginnings. I was a wreck to be around the following.
Jon (03:50.147)
Yeah.
The Golf Hypnotherapist (04:02.262)
rest of the day rather. So just being able to find fun regardless of your score. And I’m curious, what have you found most impactful for either yourself or your clients that allows them to still find a piece of joy every time they go out there regardless of the score?
Jon (04:16.303)
Well, I think it’s just what you said, what your intentions and priorities are. So I’ll give you an example of my own game where I really had to put this to test a few days ago. So we had our club championship. I’ve won it the last two years and I was going for the three Pete this year and was playing against, we have a lot of great players on my club and match play, know, anything can happen. So we have a playing with a great guy, he’s a friend.
I just start off horribly. lose the first four holes and you know, just didn’t have my A game and I kind of stuck with it and wasn’t giving up and still enjoying the match and fought back. And we got to later on the match. I was one down with three or four holes to go. And we shared this really nice moment. I just sank a 25 footer for birdie to go now one down and the last three holes of my
golf club are very exciting, anything can happen. We had a bunch of people watching us and my buddy and I who were adversaries that day, he looks at me and I look at him and I’m like, here we go, this is gonna be fun. And I didn’t win the match. I had a lot of expectations on me and myself, other people. And yeah, that wasn’t fun, but we hung out afterwards. We talked about the round. I spent some time with his family. so…
another version of me would have walked out of there and discussed. So I had to challenge myself to say, you know, I put myself out there. I put my game on the line. There’s a lot of pressure. There’s vanity, all these people watching. And I tried to drive enjoyment out of that, even though I didn’t get what I wanted. I didn’t win.
The Golf Hypnotherapist (05:52.12)
Yeah, I mean, it’s such a great reflection of just showing up with intention for the process. And you did a great job describing, that’s the moment you’re working towards the entire playing season and off season is that club championship, this particular that you’re going for the three Pete to be down by one with three holes left. I mean, what’s better than that? It’s like the little boy dreaming of bottom of the ninth, the bases are loaded, you’re down by three. That’s the pinnacle. And the fact that you were able to cultivate a moment of.
presence to acknowledge like this is going to be so much fun despite the pressure the butterflies. I mean, that is a beautiful skill you’ve cultivated over the years.
Jon (06:26.853)
Yeah, and I play a lot competitively. So I try and take solace in the amount of reps and opportunities and realizing that one situation can’t define it. So that’s probably one of 20 -ish competitive rounds I’ll play all year. you know, don’t place, I try not to place like so much importance on one event because that makes it harder for me to do what I’ve trained to do. So.
I try and look at things on a longer time horizon. I think that’s just a good thing in life and everyone kind of knows that, but I have to remind myself of that. So yeah, it didn’t happen that day. It’s happened for me other days. And no matter what, again, if I go knowing myself, if I veer off into the side of me that’s super competitive and only about results, then yeah, I’ll come away from that day. Not to say I’m not upset about it. Of course I wanted to win, but I would
really, it would have ruined my whole week. it’s, you know, a few days later, I’m okay. I’ve gotten past it. I’ll be all right.
The Golf Hypnotherapist (07:32.044)
Absolutely. So kind of the theme of our conversation so far has been this incongruency between expectations and reality. And I’m always quick to say it’s that gap between expectation and reality that invites in frustration, anger, disappointment, regret, whatever it may be. What do you specifically work on either in your journey with your clients to help better set tempered expectations so there isn’t as big of a gap between expectation and reality?
Jon (07:58.437)
Well, I think you need to be very truthful with your physical abilities in this game. So in my twenties, I didn’t get to play or practice much. And that was when I was most unhappy because I would go out expecting to perform the same way when I did practice and play a lot. And I just wasn’t as good anymore. And I remember one time I had this, I’ve probably recounted this so many times, I’m not going to go over it, but I had a…
kind of dreadful moment on the golf course. And I realized I’m like, you’re not, you’re not prepared or good enough to get angry at yourself for not playing well. And that was an important realization in my golf game. So I try and have people, whether it’s sharing statistics on what are good golf shots for different levels, understanding how scoring occurs, understanding, as we talked about the volatility of scoring that never goes away, no matter how good you get at this game. So we need to be honest with ourselves.
with our physical abilities, our experience and comfort on the golf course. If you’re only playing five, 10 times a year, I don’t think that’s enough to go out there saying like, I’m good enough to lower my handicap. I think some people can get away with that if they’re kind of athletic freaks, but for the most part, just have to be honest with what you’re putting into this game and what’s going to get, come back out at you. And that’s, I think, as you said that
That delta between what is and what people think is, is the core reason why a lot of people get frustrated and angry at this game. They’re just not honest with themselves.
The Golf Hypnotherapist (09:35.47)
love that and you’re thrown in the word Delta now you’re speaking my love language is good good stuff here. So one one quote that comes to mind and I’m going to completely butcher it but you brought it up when you were speaking was like, is a quote that says like, don’t be mad about the results you didn’t get for the work you didn’t do and I know I’m probably butchering that but you’re right like we have to take it on a step back like if I have an expectation of breaking 9080 shooting scratch and I’m playing four times a year.
There’s a massive incongruency there. So I love how you really approach that through the lens of just being honest with yourself. What is a reasonable expectation based on your bandwidth of work, time and commitment to the game?
Jon (10:14.285)
Yeah, I think, you know, for the golfer who, I think playing once a week, you know, a few times a month and being able to practice once a week, just so you can create that feedback loop between the golf course and the range, working on stuff that you’re noticing in your rounds. I’m a big proponent of, you know, reviewing your rounds and gathering that feedback, whether it was mental stuff, decision -making, impact conditions that you need to work on.
So yeah, you need to be playing enough and practicing enough to make these adjustments. And I can’t undersell how important it is to get comfortable on the golf course with all the distractions, whether it’s your playing partners, your scoring expectations, the types of shots you’re hitting. I always remind people that like in order to get better at golf, you need to be playing enough golf. can’t simulate the experience of golf well enough on a practice range. You need to be going through it. so that.
Experience that I went through this past weekend. I’ve been through a lot of club championships. I’ve been through a lot of moments like that in USGA events and big tournaments where I didn’t get what I wanted. so I’ve experienced losing, I’ve experienced winning, and it doesn’t faze me as much anymore because I’ve been through it so many times. Now, if that was the first time that happened to me, I would have been devastated and couldn’t move past it. So, it’s a long way of saying that.
Experience is so crucial in this game because golf’s kind of a bizarre activity with all the things that can take place on the course and you just have to be accepting and prepared for all of that.
The Golf Hypnotherapist (11:53.484)
Absolutely. So one point I wanted to dig in with you, you brought it up is like really spending time adequately reflecting after a round. And before we go there, I’m curious, know, if John is keeping his own manual scorecard for a moment, you know, aside from tracking the obvious during a round, know, fairways, greens and regulation, putts, OBs, penalties, what else should our listener really pay attention to tracking either from the technical, mental or emotional aspect?
during a round to set them up for a productive review.
Jon (12:25.433)
Yeah, I think you could easily break the round into a few separate categories. in terms of ball striking, if you listen to our podcast, the sweet spot, we always talk about the big three. I’m looking for how is my impact on most shots? How is my turf interaction and how is my face control? Meaning was I hitting a lot of shots to the right or the left? So I’m looking for patterns or clues like, maybe I was thinning my wedges or I was chunking my irons or pulling my driver.
So I’m looking for something that made me uncomfortable from an impact perspective and gauging whether or not, is that a pattern that’s been happening for multiple rounds or is that a one -off thing? And if so, then maybe I need to spend some time practicing to kind of fine tune this again. So that would be one thing to look at. Another would be decision -making. Was I disciplined with my framework of selecting targets off the tee with approach shots or even?
Wedge shots, did I choose a wrong club, not judge the wind correctly, not factor in the elevation change? Did I go through that process too quickly? So reviewing decision -making from a strategic perspective. I can absolutely go back and ask the questions, did I have fun? How was my attitude? How was my engagement level? Was I pushing too hard on results? Was I not engaged enough? So I have all these different things that I’m thinking about.
And my intentions, I’m judging myself on my intentions that I have for every round, which is honestly have fun, make good decisions, stay engaged, have a good time with my playing partners, be grateful I’m out there. And if I could check off all those boxes, then I think I’ve had a good day. And then the score is what it is obviously. And I look a little bit deeper on the ball striking stuff to see if, you that could be altered or changed in the future.
so yeah, there’s, there’s a lot of things to go through. don’t think everyone needs to go through that entire list, but those are just some ideas.
The Golf Hypnotherapist (14:24.994)
Yeah, and maybe if I had to distill it down, I’ll reflect back what’s taught to me is pattern recognition. And in addition to the glaring, like, okay, like, you know, this mistake, or I had that emotional blow up or hang up here, but pattern recognition, I really liked that. And I’m curious, are you an advocate for mid round note taking in some capacity, a voice note to your notes app on your scorecard? What’s that look like for you?
Jon (14:29.582)
Yeah.
Jon (14:47.205)
I don’t, I think the way my brain works is it’s a bit of a filing cabinet. So I file things away, I try and imprint things. If I have a good moment or something on the opposite end of the spectrum happened, I’m trying to kind of mentally imprint it. So yeah, I do try and take the five to 10 minutes after every round to kind of mentally review most of the shots. Some people might be better at journaling and writing that down.
As you mentioned, if you want to take a voice note on the course or some type of note on your scorecard, I think that’s fine as well. I, I’m just in my own game. I’m so conditioned to do this that I really don’t, I have a very good memory for these things. So I don’t forget them and I review it right afterwards. So that’s easier for me to do, but for others, it might make sense for them to write these things down as they occur to each their own on this, I think.
The Golf Hypnotherapist (15:43.086)
And I’ve always been of the mindset that like what needs to be brought to your attention will be there after the round that glaring pattern of you know, pushing the ball right every shot like you’re not going to forget a pattern 60 90 120 minutes later, it’s gonna stand out to you. So you can trust that you can remain focused in the moment addressing that next shot.
Jon (15:59.513)
Yeah.
Jon (16:04.409)
Yeah, I think I’ve referred to it as what stuck out like a sore thumb to you, guess, using that phrase is that what were the big things that when you thought back to the round, you’re like, wow, I really lost my temper on the seventh tee. Was that because I was frustrated about missing pots on the last three holes? Was that because of that hole has been giving me problems? So you’re asking, you can never get too good at asking yourself good questions and try and hopefully come up with a rational answer afterwards when you’ve calmed down.
The Golf Hypnotherapist (16:34.894)
Absolutely. So let’s now transition. It is post -round. What are some of the key questions aside from just looking at stats and comparing what stands out there? What are some of the key questions you’re asking yourself? You’re encouraging some of your players to really prioritize reflecting on to learn the most and bring that forth into either practice or the following round.
Jon (16:54.511)
Yeah, I think a lot of what I mentioned earlier and just ask yourself, could I have done anything differently? Because a lot of things in golf are outside of our control. So could I have, you know, let’s take for example, a strategic thought. I play in windy conditions, you know, sometimes you make the right decision and you get a poor result. The wind can shift in the middle of your swing. It might’ve been a headwind and then all of a sudden it died down and then.
the club you chose and the target you chose in the air ended up being unfortunately wrong. I can’t change that. So there’s no benefit to me to get angry over something that I didn’t have control over. Now on the flip side, if I thought back to the most moments of pressure in certain rounds and tournaments I’ve played, I’ve noticed like, yeah, when you get nervous, you speed up and you go too quickly through your decision -making process.
So sometimes I’ll look back and I’d say, you know what? I think you could have slowed down there and that might’ve been the reason why you struggled down the stretch. Sometimes you don’t know for sure. There’s a lot of unknowns in this game, but again, looking for the patterns of what sticks out like a sore thumb, I’m trying to delineate the difference between was there something I could have done differently that was within my control or, you know, maybe I just had an off day. Like the other day in my club championship, I just…
I felt very uncomfortable. My swing didn’t feel right. I don’t know if there’s anything I could have done about that. It just kind of is what it is sometimes. so I’m not beating myself up for that. I’m looking more towards, again, what could I have done differently that would have affected the outcome? And in that day, I’m not sure I could have done anything differently. And that’s why I’m kind of at peace with it.
The Golf Hypnotherapist (18:45.155)
I was going to say that same word that creates a sense of peace. If you’re focused on your process and all that you can control, that’s a beautiful day that can be a win, a source of enjoyment.
Jon (18:54.531)
Yeah, I think this is all stuff that…
You know, I think that the work that I’m doing and the work that you do and plenty of other coaches, it’s, it’s convincing people to do things that they know are the right things to do. we all know the difference of, of hanging your, your intent on things within your control, not in your control. Humans have been saying this for thousands of years. It’s just really hard to do. And it’s really hard to clarify what that is in your head. and that’s why.
these review processes are so important because a lot of golfers, they just let the information disappear or worse, they harp on only the negatives and beat themselves up and they don’t take credit. That’s another part of the process I forgot to mention. It’s now occurring to me is that can you go through the joyful moments of the round, the good shots you hit, the nice moments you maybe had with your friends?
Can you imprint that in your memory bank rather than saying, man, I missed that eight footer for par on the 17th hole and that’s all I’m gonna take away from this round. So that’s very powerful in creating like your identity as a golfer and your enjoyment level, what you choose to remember and focus on and ask yourself good questions on or not beat yourself up for. These are all ways we grow as a golfer and obviously,
with other activities in our life as well.
The Golf Hypnotherapist (20:23.564)
Absolutely, I think it was Tony Robbins who said the quality of your life and in our case we’ll say quality of your golf game is dependent upon the quality of questions you ask. And I think that’s really important because that gains or gives us insight into what’s going on. Like you keep mentioning golf is very simple, straightforward, logical. We set an intention and we align our actions but.
As human beings, are emotional beings. And I think one of the underlying benefits of what you’ve just shared is this review process allows you to start diffusing some of these big emotions. I often find personally and in my coaching that when we don’t understand why a pattern keeps happening, that’s what invites in more frustration, more anger, more impatience.
It’s through some of this thoughtful reflective work after a round that you can begin to connect the dots, align effective action steps to overcome an obstacle, make a subtle yet significant tweak in your game, and that alleviates any doubt and uncertainty as well as the frustration and anger that may be there.
Jon (21:23.203)
Yeah, we could solve a lot with calm, rational thought. Again, when we’re off the course and we’ve had some time to let the emotion pass because it is an emotional game for various reasons. yeah, easy to say now, but hard to actually go through. That’s the difficult part about golf advice and information is that it’s easy to digest.
You know, someone’s listening to this in their car and they’re like, yeah, I’m going to, I’m going to do that. That’s going to be great. And then you actually go through it you’re like, man, that wasn’t as hard. And that’s why I try and remind people that, you know, nothing is an all. No, no concept is all or nothing in golf. you can get a little bit better at something and it’ll have a meaningful impact on your game. And that could be just being more accepting and forgiving of yourself on the course. That was a huge unlock for me because I just got sick of beating myself up and losing my temper. It wasn’t very fun. And it wasn’t.
fun for the people who played with me either. so I’m not perfect at that now, but I’m, definitely better at it, you know, 10, 15 years later.
The Golf Hypnotherapist (22:28.782)
And for those of you listening, like John underscores a really important point. You make so much progress on the course, on the range, on the putting green, of course, but there are so many opportunities to do work away from and off the course as well that are just as, if not equally or more valuable when it comes to complimenting the progress you’re seeking in your scoring, in your game. So I really appreciate you sharing that. And I’m curious, something that’s really stood out to me as I’ve become more familiar with you is just your.
your process and priority of staying engaged, finding that grit, that persistence during a frustrating round, know, just this other weekend, I went triple, double, triple, and there was a moment where I had to choose as I came to a fork in the road, you know, do I just throw in the towel or do I really mentally regroup reset? How are you finding the most effective approach to regrouping and around to remaining committed so you don’t throw away four, six, eight additional strokes because you’ve given up in the middle?
Jon (23:24.569)
Yeah, I think, again, experience is important here. I think for the novice intermediate player, these moments are more earth shattering to them when they make, you know, a blow up hole and they still do kind of kick me in the stomach. you know, this year, I would say my, my, my tournament performance hasn’t been as sharp this year. I’ve had a few tournaments where I made big mistakes early. I had two tournaments this year. I made a triple bogey earlier in the round.
And the only way I could get through that was again, kind of letting the emotion happen. You know, my head spinning, my palms are sweating. I’m getting all those thoughts like, man, and I have some weird thoughts now because I’m the one giving this advice. I’m like, man, you’re a fraud. You’re telling other people to get through this. So, so there’s just like added level of, don’t know what the word would be, but difficulty I’m dealing with as someone who’s kind of been public about these things. And then I’m just.
The Golf Hypnotherapist (24:12.675)
get that.
The Golf Hypnotherapist (24:20.962)
Mm -hmm.
Jon (24:25.141)
saying to myself
You can, you can deal with this after the round, but right now let’s just see what happens if you stick with the plan and go through everything you’ve committed to. And that’s as simple as taking my time before every shot to go through my routine, pick my targets and just stick with it and see what happens versus the other side of it would be, I can let this linger. could beat myself up for the next six holes. I could ruminate on this and
I’m, I would say I’ve hung my hat on coming back from these things. all of those days I mentioned it, even this weekend when I went, I was four down through four holes. I didn’t throw it in. I’m like, man, let’s just see what happens here. And that that’s been powerful for me. And another thing that also has resonated with me is that I, I try and just talk to myself and ration rationalize with myself that.
You know, sometimes you need to take a big step backwards, be like, you know, no matter what happens here, things are going to be okay. I’m going to go home. I think about my wife and kids, like they’ll won’t care that much in either direction. What happened out there? yeah, I told my son, he, when he finally realized I had the match the other day, he’s like, no, did you win? Are you going to be the club champion? I’m like, no, I didn’t. Yeah. He was like, okay, whatever. You know, it wasn’t that big of a deal to him. so yeah, you, you have to.
I guess what I’m trying to say is everyone needs to figure out a way to create these perspective shifts in the moment or at least near the moment. And you kind of have to experiment with what resonates with you. So some people it might be an entirely different line of thinking, but that’s what helps me get through it.
The Golf Hypnotherapist (26:12.426)
I love that like that your response is just rooted in a passion and acceptance like, okay, this happened. Yes. And where am I going next? And it’s actually, I love the way you framed it. Because literally just this week, I heard something on a podcast, I think I was listening to a comedy podcast. And it’s the whole stand up framework of Yes. And, and my mind started going like, this is so applicable to passion and acceptance on the golf course. Like, yes, I just hit the ball out of bounds. And I’m going to hit a good shot after or and
I’m going to move forward and I’m going to trust my process my swing. I think that’s a wonderful framework that really encapsulates the great feedback you just had there is like, you just have to accept where you’re at and trust like your process and preparation are there to serve you and maybe you haven’t executed as well as you wanted. There’s still an opportunity ahead of you.
Jon (26:57.315)
Yeah, and also listen, sometimes it just doesn’t work out also. Sometimes you could do all of the right things, have the right intentions and this game shovels you know what back at you. And those are the days where I mentioned like that scoring distribution earlier. That’s when you’re on the higher end of your range. And my challenge to myself is how can I make that worst score less worse? So that I think is one of the unlocks that people
don’t want to go through to lower their handicaps is turning that 95 into an 88 because those, strokes go quickly when you throw in the towel, they go much faster than, than you can save them when you’re playing well. so if people can shift that perspective and saying like, you know what, I’m struggling today. I’m not feeling it, but I still have an opportunity to stick with it and potentially save strokes and accept that challenge. This, this new mini challenge. That’s great. And then.
Listen, if you threw in the towel and you know, some people like to drink on the course and they had a couple of beers and they just listen to music with their buddies. That’s okay too. I don’t care. Like if that’s what you want to get out of the game and you’re like, you know what? I’m not digging in today. I had a rough week at work and I’m just going to relax and enjoy myself. If you’re a piece with that, that’s fine too. I try and offer a more regimented version of golf to people, but I always give that caveat, you know, enjoy the experience on your terms. It doesn’t have to be this super serious endeavor.
The Golf Hypnotherapist (28:25.334)
comes back to intention again, I love that you’re right, you can be there just to have fun. And you brought up a really good point. I love how you said like you basically these are my words, not quite yours, like you have to grind to make those worse scores less worse. And what comes to Yeah, what comes to mind for me is that concept of the inchworm. You know, if we think of the inchworm, it’s front foot moving forward, lower scores, lower scores, it takes a lot of effort, time and energy for the back feet of that inchworm to finally move forward. And in this case, that the back feet behind
Jon (28:26.967)
Yeah, what do you want? Yeah, what do you want out of this?
Jon (28:38.359)
Yeah, it’s hard.
The Golf Hypnotherapist (28:54.988)
not legs, what are they are little critter antenna things. That is your worst score section. It’s the bottom of that bell curve. And that is where you really have to dig in. And it is more of an emotional and mental toolkit that’s going to allow you to move that forward in the right direction.
Jon (29:10.137)
Yeah. And one thing I would say to people who are serious about becoming better is that one thing I’ve noticed when I’ve really hung my hat on this idea of grid and perseverance and not giving up is that, you know, when you can think about things in a longer term view, which is hard to do when you’re in the moment on the golf course. But, you know, I think of it in a tournament perspective for me is that I know that if I make it a habit of checking out when things are hard,
that makes it easier for me to do it in the next five rounds. So in the context of, when I play under pressure and I have cuts to make or qualifiers, it might be clear to me that my chance has gone that day to get what I wanted. Like I’m not going to qualify for this tournament, but I still have eight holes left. If I give up and check out on these eight holes, that will not serve me well in the next one or 15 ones down the road. So this is
Again, it gets back to concepts like, you know, habits and decision making and having a long -term view on things. Again, all stuff that we know is the right answers in life, whether you’re looking to, you know, be healthier financially or with, with food decisions. but these are things that you have to have clear intentions on so that I know when I tee off, like that’s my intention. That is what I’m going to judge myself by what I’m done with the round. And I have just felt that.
You know, with what I want out of the game, I want to perform at a high level. That’s what I need to hold myself accountable to.
The Golf Hypnotherapist (30:44.492)
so well said that grit that persistence is a habit. It’s a transferable skill to like you mentioned in the next five rounds, it becomes easier to give up the same applies in life that tough business decision that tough conversation with your significant other or your children. Are you going to start ducking those challenging conversations because you’re defaulting to this new habit of choosing easy. And I’m curious, I think it’s a beautiful segue here like you and I both are in such agreement that golf is that just a
beautiful, powerful personal development tool. Golf is a wonderful mirror of our shortcomings and opportunities away from the course too. And I’m curious in the last 10 years of playing for you, what has the game of golf helped you strengthen or solidify as kind of this umbrella personal development skill that served you away from the course?
Jon (31:31.235)
Yeah, I think, you know, all of the greatest hits of life. think patience has been a, been a huge one. just kind of being able to, I think a lot of golfers get drawn to the game because they’re kind of control freaks and they love results and numbers and competing. and what I found in golf is like the harder you squeeze, the harder the game squeezes back at you. And that’s definitely a life thing too, where.
We just have to let go of certain things, whether that’s in my business, relationships, trying to change people, all those things that pop up in life where you’re like, man, you deceive yourself into having more control over the situation than you do. And that’s hard. mean, I’ve got two kids. I think it shows up in parenting a lot. I I wouldn’t say I’m a parenting expert, but I’ve just.
You know, when I think about our parenting style and people I’m around is that it’s very easy to fall into the trap of thinking that I have control over the outcome of my son or daughter’s life based on like what I’m telling them and doing. And then I need to, you know, do everything I can to make sure that they’re going to turn out a certain way. And I’ve just found that that sometimes has the opposite effect. So there’s certain situations where I’m just like, you know what, I’m just going to have to let the situation play out and let them deal with it and not get involved.
That’s hard to do. I don’t think I always get it right, but I could definitely draw a path to a situation on the golf course that’s quite similar.
The Golf Hypnotherapist (33:04.75)
Absolutely, and I can tell you that I already look forward to reading one of your future books, The Foundations of Parenting, what the game of golf has taught me about being a better dad.
Jon (33:10.799)
Yeah.
I don’t think I would ever have the audacity to write that book. I think I’m going to stick to golf.
The Golf Hypnotherapist (33:21.518)
know, we appreciate you in the golf field, too. And I’m curious, I loved a thread taking place on Twitter that you initiate, you know, talking about you, you do use a lot of analogies in the health and fitness space and golf. And you know, as a dietician in my former life, you know, that speaks volumes to me and my expertise. So one one post that really caught my attention are what are the fruits and vegetables of your golf game? And I never saw your answer. I saw a million and one different answers. Like, how would you answer that question?
Jon (33:50.721)
I think it’s, you know, a lot of the stuff that we’ve been talking about, like, for example, you know, we know that sticking to a process and forgiving yourself and staying in the moment and all these, you know, cliches and whatever you want to call them, we all know they’re the right things to do. Like, we know that it’s pretty indisputable that they’re certain, although.
I shouldn’t say that because it’ll load up Instagram and see people eating a stick of butter. I think we have decent knowledge of what a healthy diet is and that would include whole foods like fruits and vegetables. I’ll try and keep it as generic as possible. So yeah, there’s certain things in the golf world where, you know, I’m telling people stuff that they know already. Like when you practice, I don’t want you to rifle through the bucket mindlessly. I want you to pick a target, absorb feedback on every shot. I want you to do different styles of practice. And everyone’s like, yeah, of course.
but actually doing it is another thing. so intellectually, these things aren’t hard to understand. they’re just hard to do. Like me writing the book, man, I quit like three separate times. I don’t know you could see it the video, but there’s a outline of my book on my office wall behind me. And I put that up there as a reminder to myself, because I, I made that outline probably in 2018 or 19. I got super excited to write the book and I worked on it for six months. And then I just got.
The Golf Hypnotherapist (35:02.766)
Yeah.
Jon (35:16.357)
exhausted. like, I can’t do this. This is too hard. And that outline sat in my office for 18 months, just sitting there because I lost that habit. I lost the determination and you know what got me out of it? I just, one day it would say, they say like getting started is the hardest part. And it’s true. I was just like, I’m to start writing this thing. And I’m just going to like X off. had this, you know, one those habit trackers on my desk.
And I’m just going to like do that Jerry Seinfeld, don’t break the chain thing that I read in James Clear book on habits, just saying like, I’m to write every morning and exit off. And I feel like if I keep this up for a certain amount of time, I’ll have something here. And I did, I got off track there. I think I lost my train of thought, but that’s that to me is an example of eating your fruits and vegetables. And you could do that in golf too, whether it’s again, taking a few seconds to consider your target.
elevation change when rather than just stepping up and hitting it, or having that post -round process of reviewing what occurred that’s eating your fruits and vegetables. So it’s kind of like these basic things that are hiding in plain sight. but you’re hanging your hat on them and you’re making them important to you. And when you do boring things well over a long period of time, sometimes we get good results and more importantly, you feel better about yourself. I think that’s the most important thing is like you feel productive and you feel.
You feel good about yourself. And I have a, I just have to admit to this, like I weave in and out of this in my own personal life, like being super regimented with stuff and then getting lazy with it. And as much as I try and help others do the same, like it’s still hard for me. I’m really good at it with golf, but I think outside of golf, I’m still figuring a lot of this stuff out.
The Golf Hypnotherapist (37:02.382)
Yeah, and I appreciate the vulnerability there. You are a human being and that’s okay. I think it’s so beautiful when you can have that vulnerability and it’s like, because all of us know what to do and if we don’t, let’s be frank, Google will give us 50 ,000 answers in a millisecond. It’s simple, but simple is not the same as easy.
Jon (37:06.818)
Yeah.
Jon (37:16.207)
Yeah, information, yeah, information isn’t the issue anymore.
The Golf Hypnotherapist (37:22.604)
Yeah, it’s a mindset problem. It’s a habit problem, discipline. And I think really the theme and the undercurrent of our conversation comes back to like, we know the fundamentals. And if you don’t, John is an outstanding resource to go learn them. And after that, there’s equal parts patience, acceptance, positivity, enjoyment, commitment. And that is kind of the collective of emotions and practices that will guide you in your progress and your journey.
Jon (37:45.977)
Yeah, mean, it’s just, if there’s a better way to like be satisfied and feel good about yourself, like I’d love to hear it. Everyone keeps kind of converging on the same stuff through many generations. And I think we’re fine tuning it a bit more, but I just, don’t know what other way to like feel better about yourself and productive in any endeavor that you’re taking up. And golf is, as we said, like in terms of it mirroring life, it’s the ultimate test of all these things, I think.
The Golf Hypnotherapist (37:54.573)
Ha ha.
The Golf Hypnotherapist (38:14.092)
Yeah, totally in agreement there. Now I’m curious, well, I’m reading a quote off my other monitor here. I loved what you said. It says, this is a quote from you, incremental progress is the key to golf. You don’t cure or eliminate problems or mistakes. Those words set you up for disappointment. Your goal is to make them happen less often. And we kind of alluded to it. It’s not an all or nothing game. Like expand upon for us, like what that means to you and what does the listener really need to take away from that sentiment?
Jon (38:42.277)
So I’ll be a little cynical here for a second, but I think the golf industry, how it markets itself, like many other industries, like the health industry, personal finance, quick wins, quick fixes sell very well. So from an early age, I’ve been inundated with marketing from the OEMs and training aid companies and golf ball companies.
all saying the same thing. We could fix your slice. We can give you the extra 20 yards. We can lower your scores if you buy this and take this shortcut. And I would say, yeah, it’s potentially possible, but unlikely. And that permeates itself throughout the golf world in various formats. Go on YouTube and search for swing tips. Fix your slice forever with this five minute video. And I’m not saying their information’s bad.
I just think it’s setting you up for reality that doesn’t exist. So if you took the classic slicer and wanted to fix that or make it happen less often is the term that I prefer is that, you know, you’re not going to stop slicing. Like I used to have a problem hooking the ball. I still hook it from time to time. It didn’t go away. I’ve just reduced the extremity of it and made it happen less often so that when it still happens, I’m not shocked or like,
taken back, I’m just saying, okay, that was part of my pattern. And I’m doing my best to mitigate that and make it happen less often. So yeah, I think golf sets you up, whether you’re on the practice range and you like figured something out in your swing and you’re like, I got it now. I’m never going to play poorly again. Or you had a few great rounds. Exactly. We all are. And sometimes the game feels easier and you’re like, man, I got it. And then, you know, two days later, you just get this.
The Golf Hypnotherapist (40:25.688)
See you
Jon (40:34.489)
horrible slice of humble pie. So I’d rather people think about it in terms of incremental progress, because that is this again, in terms of everything else in life, this game is a really magnified version of that, where you can do all the right things and go backwards for a while. And you have to understand that that’s part of it. And then you all of sudden see this like crazy spike and it goes down again. So it’s this, you know, series of breakthroughs and setbacks, but
The Golf Hypnotherapist (40:49.655)
you
Jon (41:02.167)
Along the way, when you average them out, they’re, they’re mostly incremental and it’s hard to do that. I had a great quote, man. I think it was from Morgan Housel. was in my book where he kind of saying like, you know, setbacks happen. Something about on the spot. can’t think of that. It’s kind of sad, but just in terms of like progress, like setbacks happen so quickly and they’re right in your face. Whereas like the progress is more of like.
hidden in the weeds over time. It’s harder to see.
The Golf Hypnotherapist (41:35.599)
He wrote the psychology of money, right? Yeah. Yeah.
Jon (41:37.517)
Yeah, he wrote the psychology of money and some other other great stuff. He’s one of my favorite writers.
The Golf Hypnotherapist (41:43.084)
Yeah, he’s a very good writer. And that reminds me too, there’s the, I mean, we’re just throwing out a handful of quotes here this morning. Like the setback is really the setup for the new opportunity, the setup for the moment of growth that’s just around the corner. If you’re willing to be patient and open -minded to finding the learning lesson, you need to get to that next level.
Jon (42:01.529)
Yeah, I mean, if you let it, golf can take you to some really dark places. and it’s happened to me for sure. And yeah, the only way out of it is, some type of perspective shift. So, you know, I had one friend who had, could use more quotes. There is, there is no losing only learning like some version of that. and yeah, I think.
Jon (42:28.419)
When you’re truthful about what you want out of the game and how you’re gonna get it, it’s easier to like look at all these things and saying, man, I just had a stinker of a round today. What did I notice from that? What questions can I ask myself? And again, if someone else has a better way to get out of it, I’m all ears because again, the path of least resistance is only letting the results dictate how you feel about yourself. And that’s a very tricky game to play.
If you ride momentum up and feel good about yourself when you’re playing well, then naturally you’re gonna ride it down when you’re not playing well. And I’m trying to get the best of both worlds. I really do want people to enjoy those moments where they hit great tee shots or sink a pot or post a really good score. I want them to enjoy that and have fun with it. But at the same time, when the flip side of that shows up, and it will, what tools do you have at your disposal to deal with that?
so I’m trying to like, Absorb the upside and limit the downside. I’m sure there’s a stock trading reference in there that we could use an options trading, strategy. but that’s, that’s kind of how I view the game is like taking ownership and loving and enjoying these great moments and then figuring out ways to deal with all the other stuff that golf’s going to throw your
The Golf Hypnotherapist (43:50.348)
I love that. And I think too, it’s just a perspective of like, what is this, if I’m going to use the generic term, this negative moment, this learning lesson, what can I learn? It comes back to acceptance and just curiosity is a big word I like to come back to, especially in my own game, being earlier in my, in my playing career right now, I use career, like I’m a professional. like that. that’s, but it’s just curiosity. Like, okay, why did this happen? What do I have to learn from it? And that for me, I have found helps to
diffuse some of that emotional charge so I can quickly turn down the volume of my emotional brain, turn up the logic, the inquisition, and just get curious about what I can take and move forward with from that round.
Jon (44:26.755)
Yeah, and also you also have to give yourself permission to let the human side of you out. I don’t want to, you know, it’s hard because sometimes when you go down this path, I feel like some people will like suppress their emotions and interpret this as being kind of like a robot. And I don’t, I don’t really want that either. So there’s always a balance here. It’s like, I want you to.
again, feel excited when good things are occurring. And if you hit that tee shot out of bounds, like, if your stomach sinks and you have an outburst or something like that, that’s okay too. Again, if it becomes excessive and it’s starting to wreck your enjoyment of the game, like then it’s like, all right, potentially we have a problem here that I need to address. But at the same time, like you can’t expect to play this game. It’s an emotional game. You can’t expect to play it and not have…
your human side come out quite a bit. You’re just learning ways to find what’s the optimal engagement level for your personality. Some people are, you know, a little bit quieter and more stoic on the golf course. Others are more talkative. And you see this at the highest levels of golf on the professional tours. You know, there’s different personalities out there and they thrive on acting in certain ways. And I think that
is absolutely the case for the recreational golfer as well. Like you need to figure out what version of your personality should show up on the course. And for me, like I let, I think by nature, I’m quite an emotional person and I let the emotion get out of control for a long time. And I needed to go back a bit on it. Not that I’m not emotional anymore, but I realized like it was just too much and I couldn’t handle the roller coaster I was putting myself on.
The Golf Hypnotherapist (46:14.446)
Yeah, you need to remain in the driver’s seat, not the frustration, the disappointment. They can be in the back seat, but you’ve got to be driving that car. Yeah. It’s interesting. I’m so happy you brought that up. Cause I had in my notes here, like the words equanimity, robotic, and then from a Bo Watson and Shannon Shusky, they use like caveman golf, C target, C ball hit. You just do that in an ideal world 72 times or less. Most of us may be 80 or 90 times, but at its core like
Jon (46:20.451)
Yeah, as best I can. As best I can.
The Golf Hypnotherapist (46:41.016)
Golf can be that simple, but it robs you of the human experience, which is so emotionally charged because we are emotional beings. So I loved your perspective. Just like figuring out your allotment, what dial to set your emotion to that aligns with your personality. So you show up as your authentic self, which ultimately allows you to play to your potential.
Jon (47:00.451)
Yeah, and a lot of the, so one problem that I love to solve for myself or other people is drawing that line of where that is. So you mentioned like that caveman golf. I am all about in the moments around your shots, like you want to react like an athlete. want to, again, see my target, go through my process and react to it and let my body know, do what it knows how to do versus let my mind get in the way of trying to force things to happen.
So we get those chances 70, 80, 90, a hundred times around. but those are quick moments. It doesn’t take that long to swing a golf club. shouldn’t take more than 20, 30, 40 seconds to go through that routine, but we’re out there for four or five, sometimes six hours, unfortunately. so I guess what I’m talking about is managing all of that other time. So your reactions to shots, your, the time you are.
The Golf Hypnotherapist (47:53.009)
Mm
Jon (47:58.701)
spending worrying about shots that haven’t even occurred yet. There’s a lot of in -between time in golf and that’s a big problem for people to solve. And why I said earlier that being on a golf course and being comfortable out there is very important because you need to figure out different solutions to fill that time and hopefully spend it productively. Do you want to spend it cursing at yourself or worrying about playing partners or all of the other stuff that can happen on the golf course?
Or do you want to strike up great conversations with your buddies or playing partners? Do you want to absorb the beauty of the golf course? Do you want to take some time to calm yourself down if you need to, or kind of redirect your thoughts away from, you know, too much fear or worrying about stuff that hasn’t even occurred yet. So yeah, I think finding this blend of going into that reactionary, you can even call it robotic state around each shot. would.
describe that as myself, I’m just pressing a button and going, but then with all the other times, then I have to figure out, well, man, I got three plus hours of no action here. How do I spend that time productively?
The Golf Hypnotherapist (49:05.71)
So well said. Some of those walks to an errant shot can be lonely, can be dark if you let them. No. So get us out on a positive. I would love to hear what is your highlight from this past year, 2024? What really stands out to you as a proud accomplishment or a highlight?
Jon (49:10.605)
Of course. Yep. Absolutely.
Jon (49:23.119)
Yeah, I think this year was a little bit harder for me than the last two years. I had been dealing with, I have tennis elbow tendinosis in my elbow. So I just don’t think my ball striking was as sharp and I had some, you know, decent moments competitively, but you know, if I’m being honest, probably not as sharp as I felt the last couple of years. And, you know, that was a bit of a struggle for me, but I guess I’m proud of the way that I’ve, still had, I got to take some great
trips with people I’ve met through doing my content. I went to Scotland. I’ve made some awesome trips in the U S. So I look back on this year, it’s, the middle of September now, hopefully have another month or two of playing golf. And I look back and say, man, I, I made a lot of new friends. spent some time in awesome places with old friends. I put myself under pressure. I learned more about my game.
I had some great moments. had some kind of heartbreaking moments. Like I said, you know, this past weekend, I didn’t get what I wanted at my club championship, but I’m okay with that. So yeah, I think I’m, I guess I’m happy that I’m not, despite the fact that I’m trying to help others, like I’m still trying to be an open book to myself and figure this stuff out, figure this stuff out because like I still haven’t fully figured it out.
But yeah, it’s been super fun still. I’m still enjoying it and seeing what happens.
The Golf Hypnotherapist (50:53.56)
That’s wonderful to hear and sending my best recovery vibes your way. I know how painful that can be or more annoying.
Jon (50:58.317)
Yeah, it’s not debilitating, it’s annoying. That’s the right word. It’s not preventing me from playing golf, so I’m grateful for that.
The Golf Hypnotherapist (51:06.69)
Very good. So let the listeners know where can they go connect with you, learn from you, buy your phenomenal book.
Jon (51:13.729)
I try and give away a lot of information for free. So we have a podcast called the sweet spot. We’ve been doing for almost four years now. There’s a ton of episodes on there with my philosophy and my pod podcast partner, Adam young. I have, I share a lot of stuff on X Twitter at practical golf or at practical .golf on Instagram. I’ve been posting more videos there.
If you do like what I’m saying and you want to buy my book, it’s the four foundations of golf on Amazon and my newer book, which is about competition. That’s the foundations of winning golf. And you can check out my website, the four foundations of golf .com. have my video course there, but yeah, I just try and, I’ve got a lot of free stuff. I’ve got some stuff that doesn’t cost much money to learn from me directly. I’ve started coaching some golfers directly. work with Mackenzie Hughes on the PGA tour for the last year.
that’s been very fun. I’ve been working sparingly with, with other golfers directly as my time permits. so yeah, that that’s where everyone can find me.
The Golf Hypnotherapist (52:18.158)
and I’ll have all of that in the show notes. So don’t worry, easy access below. John, thank you so much for your time, your wisdom, your insight. I really appreciate it.
Jon (52:25.753)
Thanks, Paul. Enjoy the conversation.
The Golf Hypnotherapist (52:27.63)
Absolutely. For those of you listening, thank you for tuning in. Do both john and myself a favor if you found value in this episode, which I absolutely know you did take 30 seconds to share it with a fellow golfer so that he or she can also take their game to the next level. Thank you so much for tuning into another episode of the scratch golfers mindset podcast. Hit them straight this weekend and we’ll catch you in the next one.
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PAUL SALTER
Paul Salter - known as The Golf Hypnotherapist - is a High-Performance Mindset Coach who leverages hypnosis and powerful subconscious reprogramming techniques to help golfers of all ages and skill levels overcome the mental hazards of their minds so they shoot lower scores and play to their potential.