#35: [Inside the Mind] Jesse Perryman: Stop Trying So Hard and Play Better Golf

Episode Introduction and Summary
Welcome back to The Scratch Golfer’s Mindset Podcast! In this episode, host Paul Salter, The Golf Hypnotherapist, welcomes special guest Jesse Perryman, an experienced amateur golfer and host of The Flag Hunters Golf Podcast. Together, they explore the mental and emotional components of golf mastery, providing listeners with practical strategies to improve their mental game and performance on the course.
Jesse shares his journey from playing Division I college golf to preparing for senior amateur competitions, and he emphasizes the importance of cultivating presence, setting intentions, and accepting discomfort as part of the path to improvement. Jesse and Paul dive into topics like neutralizing performance anxiety, overcoming ego-driven pressure, and learning how to truly enjoy the game while still striving for excellence.
Listeners will hear about the critical role of the mental game, how to practice with intention, and why stepping outside your comfort zone in tournament play is key to unlocking your potential. Jesse’s holistic approach to golf improvement includes insights on mindfulness, breath work, and creating a mindset that promotes confidence and consistency under pressure.
Whether you’re a double-digit handicapper working toward single digits or a seasoned player aiming for scratch, this episode offers invaluable advice on how to align your mental, emotional, and physical game for long-term success.
Tune in for Jesse’s expert tips, inspiring stories, and actionable steps to transform how you approach both practice and play.
P.S. If you’re interested in learning more about how mindset coaching and hypnotherapy can help you get unstuck from the proverbial bunker of poor performance on (and off) the course, click here to schedule a coaching discovery call with me.
Connect with Jesse
- Host of The Flaghunters Golf Podcast
- Twitter/X: @podflag
> > > If you enjoy Jesse and I riffing (we’ve talked for HOURS), you can catch two more hours of conversation between the two of us discussing all things mindset on his show here:
- Conquering Self-Sabotage on the Golf Course with Paul Salter
- Achieving Flow State in Golf and Life with Paul Salter
Key Takeaways:
- Setting intentions before a round can help golfers relax and alleviate stress.
- Being present in the moment is crucial for optimal performance on the golf course.
- Getting out of your comfort zone, such as playing in tournaments, can lead to significant growth and improvement.
- Embracing nerves and doubts is part of the human experience and can serve as a guide for progress.
- The pie chart concept highlights the importance of technical skills, physical well-being, and the mental game in golf improvement. Accept fear and nervousness as part of the game and embrace the energy in your body.
- Simulate tournament conditions in practice to prepare for competitive rounds.
- Play the golf course in your mind to develop the right mindset for playing your best.
- Meditation can help cultivate mental resilience and the ability to be comfortable in uncomfortable situations.
- Accept where you are in your golf game to facilitate growth and improvement.
Key Quotes:
- “You need to be able to remember it under duress or if you’re starting to go the other way, you’re going to play well because I can guarantee your listeners that listen to this podcast, Paul, that if they do that, they will supersede their expectations during the course of the round.”
- “When you can, when you start whatever that practice is, whether it’s meditation, whether it’s yoga, whether it’s breath work, whatever it is, chanting, I don’t care. Scottie Shephler’s single greatest asset he has in his game right now is his ability to be in the present moment.”
- “Your pie chart is in motion. It’s in motion. You have the basics. Hey man, I want you to get up and work out every day or get some movement in your body. That’s going to be huge because a stiff golf swing is not going to lend itself to fluidity of mind.”
- “Whether you make this or you miss it, you’re not going to die. So just get up and hit the damn thing.”
- “What you resist persists.”
- “Use one ball. Don’t use three balls. Don’t use a sleeve. Just use one ball.”
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Time Stamps:
- 00:00: Introduction and Background
- 03:04: Setting Intentions and Relaxing for Better Golf
- 07:38: The Power of Being Present in the Moment
- 11:56: The Pie Chart: A Holistic Approach to Golf Improvement
- 18:43: Stepping Out of Your Comfort Zone for Growth
- 21:10: Embracing Nerves and Doubts as a Guide for Progress
- 24:27: Embracing Fear and Nervousness
- 26:42: Simulating Tournament Conditions in Practice
- 29:42: Playing the Golf Course in Your Mind
- 33:26: The Power of Meditation in Golf
- 42:04: Acceptance and Growth in Golf
Transcript:
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (00:02.277)
Jesse Perryman, welcome to the Scratch Golfers Mindset podcast. How are you today, my friend?
Jesse Perryman (00:08.588)
Thanks Paul, I’m doing great. Thanks for having me on.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (00:11.405)
Absolutely, so good to connect, really excited about this conversation. mean, damn, finally we made it happen, we’re here, and I’m not gonna waste any time or leave any stone unturned. So to kick us off, introduce yourself, your relationship with the game of golf to our fellow listeners.
Jesse Perryman (00:29.742)
Yeah, well, Paul, I mean, you and I met through social media, primarily via my podcast, which we’ll go into, I’m sure. But I’ve been playing golf since I was 12 and 54 now, getting ready for some senior amateur golf. I’ve been fortunate to play golf at a reasonably decent level for most of my life. I was fortunate to play
college golf and played division one college golf for a couple years and using that experience to help really catapult me to seeing what better golf was like at another level. Even though I wasn’t, I didn’t really think I was quite at that level back then, but I am now. But to really have a preview to play with some of the nation’s bests.
you know guys in their their early twenties and but unfortunately slash unfortunately my arrow was Phil Mickelson and Durek and Justin Leather and Stuart Zink and Mike Weir and you know I can go on and on there’s a lot of great players I was looking I was looking up at the leaderboard a lot but I was there
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (01:48.433)
Now, I love it, so incredible. And we’re gonna unpack the competitiveness in your experience competing so consistently. But I’m curious, fill the listeners in now. What are you doing now that still connects you to the game?
Jesse Perryman (02:00.59)
Well, I am preparing for senior AM golf. I’m 54, 55 obviously is the magic number. Hopefully not my last age milestone. But yeah, so I have been playing some amateur golf just to help prepare myself because those guys can still play out there. They’re very good. They still hit it a long way. It’s not too much physical skill diminishment.
Especially with the advent of today’s modern technology of all and everything goes further So it keeps old guys like us in there, you know able to be competitive well into our our ladders latter ages But that’s what connects me to the game and I also have a golf improvement podcast that I’ve had out there for pretty close to three years called the flag hunters golf podcast and we’re pretty fortunate we got a lot of a lot of folks that listen and
And that also keeps me really connected on a much deeper level than I initially imagined.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (03:04.283)
you do a terrific job. So it’s no surprise to me. And I’ll of course link down in the show notes below. But what I would love to hear, Jesse, you know what first really connected us was not necessarily the game of golf, but the mental game within the game of golf. And I would love to hear from you, knowing you’re speaking to that struggling double digit handicapper who aspires to single digits as well as the single digit handicapper who aspires to scratch what
Jesse Perryman (03:06.456)
Thanks.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (03:34.135)
element of the mental game? they just simply missing or misunderstanding that would catapult their ability to play to their potential?
Jesse Perryman (03:44.958)
What a great question. It’s a that’s a big that’s a big question but at first blush my first thought is I Would recommend Those two scenarios if you’re a double -digit handicap and you want to play better golf and you want to get to a single digit handicap You might want to go Holistically and and look maybe if there’s some technical things that you can clean up you find a great coach
You know and this is all part of the pie chart and this ties in with the with the mental because I know from my own experience Paul Since we’re on the subject that it the two go hand -in -hand they really do go hand -in -hand So, you know for the double -digit handicapper, I think that you Really could help yourself alleviate a lot of stress if you figure out
and ask and start to learn actually how to play golf and know yourself. That’s going to help you to relax a little bit more and get away from some of the angst of trying too hard. I see a lot of that. You know, I play a lot with my fellow club members and I got some guys that I play with that are double -digit handicaps and they try so hard.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (05:11.309)
Mm.
Jesse Perryman (05:12.352)
I mean, and I tell them, look brother, you’re trying a lot harder than I am. You know, I mean, there’s something to be said for that. Whatever that is, how that’s ingested by the listener right now. But for a double digit handicap, you could start there. And that in turn is going to help you to relax, at least lower the angst level, so to speak. I mean, I see so many people playing with that angst. And we need to…
we need to steer away from that or at least transmute that to learn how to use that to our advantage.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (05:47.825)
I think that’s so well said and I can personally relate. It’s so funny. I was playing with a buddy. I’ve mentioned it before, Mr. Henry Carouse. He’s episode 15 or 16 on the show. He’s a scratch golfer. He’s a former long drive champion competitor and we played around together and he’s looking at me and by like the 12th hole, you know, we finally gotten to know each other. He goes, man, you’re doing all of the right things.
But it just looks like you’re trying so hard, just try chilling out and relaxing. And lo and behold, I put together a few great holes after that. So I really feel in my bones exactly what you’re saying. And it makes sense. Someone who aspires to get better, there’s no shortage of effort required. But what I’m hearing you say is like, you can find a way to establish calm, relaxed demeanor while putting forth that effort and it will better serve you, right?
Jesse Perryman (06:38.914)
Yeah, indeed. And I’m not telling anyone who’s listening to be out there and just go into full Bob Marley relaxation mode. Because you want to get better and you want to play better. it really is learning how to transmute that tension and applying it in a more positive direction. And for that, you’ve got to become intentional.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (06:56.365)
Mmm.
Jesse Perryman (07:08.174)
So this is going to serve both handicap genres. Every time I go out and play golf, I’m a plus two handicap. I’ve been fortunate enough to play in some USGA events. I just won our club championship at 54. I beat all the kids. And I always will set an intention before every single round. And that is my North Star. That’s my North Star. Because we’re human.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (07:34.651)
Mm.
Jesse Perryman (07:38.008)
So shit’s gonna go sideways out on the golf course, your mind is gonna be racing. And the beautiful thing about this game is that if you listen and your mind is quiet enough, it’ll speak to you and it’ll tell you what to do. Because I really do believe that it’s unique for everyone, even though we have some general isms, if you will. But.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (08:02.331)
Mm -hmm.
Jesse Perryman (08:04.674)
But having an understanding of what your North Star is prior to teeing off, whatever that is. Today I’m gonna accept bad shots. Today I’m gonna be okay with whatever happens. And when you believe in that, that sort of starts the momentum process to redirect that energy of angst, of trying to, and I see it with single digit handicappers too. Where their expectations start to go up another level, and if they don’t,
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (08:13.072)
Hmm.
Jesse Perryman (08:33.29)
achieve that expectation, now their ego may be bruised a little bit and you you start going the other way. You want to spiral upward, not spiral downward, but I do believe that whatever the intention that the golfer wants to set for that round, is what he or she, that’s their north star, that’s their guiding light, that’s their anchor point to go back to something.
I always set an intention and today I went out and played a bunch of holes at my club and just to prepare for a tournament I have in a couple of weeks. And the intention was to be okay with whatever happens out there, to be absolutely neutral, to be objective in what I see in my game is going to tell me what I need to work on prior to coming into this event.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (09:15.727)
Mm.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (09:24.219)
I love that. Absolutely incredible. mean, one of the things I think that subconsciously, unconsciously drew me to you as well, Jesse, is just like your vernacular, your wordsmithing. And when you specifically were talking about listening and the mind will speak to you, you I once heard a quote that the voice of the subconscious mind is silence. And I think you say that so beautifully in your own way too, because you’re right. When we’re able to have an intention, we shut off all the distraction. We’re able to settle our conscious mind on something that is
fixed and you and I both know the body and subconscious are two of the same so if our conscious mind is fixed on that intention, your body knows how to swing the damn golf club and now it’s able to do so without that tension.
Jesse Perryman (10:06.338)
Yeah, that’s right. mean, it’s in a sense really when you have something that is an anchor point, it’s like a walking, living, breathing meditation. And you remind yourself whatever that is. Hey, look, know, hey, I had it today. I had to remind myself today. I just go out and play casually and next thing I know, I’m starting to make birdies and I’m starting to stripe it.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (10:21.701)
Mm -hmm.
Jesse Perryman (10:36.564)
And that’s primarily because I have an intention to be okay with whatever happens. So I’m going to let, the ball’s going to go wherever it’s going to go and I’m going to be okay with that. But the ego gets involved as soon it’s involved with whatever
Jesse Perryman (11:00.143)
Ego gets involved and then you start going sideways and then you remember, you realize, wait a minute here, I’m supposed to do this or I’m supposed to do that. Whatever the intention is, it needs to be simple. You need to be able to remember it under duress or if you’re starting to go the other way, you’re going to play well because I can guarantee your listeners that listen to this podcast, Paul, that if they do that,
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (11:20.917)
Hmm.
Jesse Perryman (11:30.563)
they will supersede their expectations during the course of the round because you have knocked your ego out temporarily. You’ve knocked that inner voice out temporarily. But with that being said, and this is next level knowledge here, because this is what a lot of people don’t talk about, unfortunately. And it’s such an important piece to…
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (11:37.585)
Mmm.
Jesse Perryman (11:56.015)
When you look at your game of improvement as a pie chart, there has to be something there that is the glue that binds them all. It’s the glue that binds them all. And you look at a mid, let’s say a 15 handicapper for example, his or her goal is good.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (12:15.321)
Real quick, Jesse, give us context with that pie chart. You keep alluded to that pie chart, paint that picture clearly, and then keep going so we have that foundation to build off of.
Jesse Perryman (12:23.853)
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for stopping me. I think that the pie chart is subjective. However, it’s, it’s universal for everyone because my pie chart might be different than yours, Paul. but you’re looking at equipment as a, as a piece of the puzzle, getting, good equipment properly fitted, not to how you’re swinging the club now, how you want to swing the club. We’re starting to get back to intention. Okay. If you’re, if you’re,
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (12:42.193)
Mm -hmm.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (12:50.373)
Hmm.
Mmm.
Jesse Perryman (12:53.517)
You’re going to sit down with me and you’re going to go, Jesse, you’re a plus two handicap. How the hell do I get from here to there? I’m going to say, okay, Paul pie chart here. How do you want to, how do you want to hit the golf ball? I want to hit high draws. Okay. So there’s some technical, we’re going to, we’re going to introduce technical parts to this. Technical and equipment are two of the same, just like the subconscious in the body. They’re two of the same. One’s operating the other.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (13:20.25)
Yeah.
Jesse Perryman (13:22.671)
Whether you’re aware of it or not, that’s the scary part. But going back to the pie chart, how well do you move? Maybe a 15 handicapper has back limitations, maybe some mobility issues. In order to play good golf, you should be working on your physical well -being. Golf, it’s a sport. And you want to hit the ball, and you want to hit the ball hard. I don’t care who you are, everybody wants to hit the ball hard.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (13:44.369)
Thanks.
Jesse Perryman (13:52.163)
That requires a certain amount of mobility, certain amount of flexibility, certain amount of strength in areas of your body that you need it, your back, your quads, your butt, you know, those types of things. That’s a part of the pie chart, okay? Now we’re talking about the mental side. The mental side really is, in my opinion, the glue that binds it all. It really is. It’s the glue that binds it all. There is a history of a lot of great players, both men and women, that have not the best technique.
and they’ve won and they’re hall of famers. What is that? You know, what is that? That’s the million dollar question. What is that? Well, I believe that anybody, not just the mid handicap or the high handicap or the low handicap and you’re aspiring to get to the next level. But this is my personal recommendation.
that along with setting intentions before a round, that has to be followed up by a practice. A practice that includes and is the foundational piece, not only in the game of golf, but in one’s life, and that’s the ability to be in the present moment.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (15:05.573)
Mm.
Jesse Perryman (15:06.925)
When you can, when you start whatever that practice is, whether it’s meditation, whether it’s yoga, whether it’s breath work, whatever it is, chanting, I don’t care. Scottie Shephler’s single greatest asset he has in his game right now is his ability to be in the present moment. He has said it so many frickin’ times in interviews, but yet everybody wants to talk about his footwork.
But he’s giving us the answer. He’s the best player in the world by far. And he’s giving us the, you know what? I just try to stay in the present moment. I don’t really think about too much down the road. I use the golf course as a place for me to figure out what I need to work on and me and my coach, Randy Smith, do that. Other than that, my primary focus is just to be in the present moment. It sounds so simple, but I guarantee you anybody who’s listening, who’s been in the zone in any part of their life,
whether it’s a game, just how much are you thinking when you’re watching a great movie?
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (16:07.268)
Mm -hmm.
Jesse Perryman (16:16.999)
You’re not thinking. You are so involved in that. You are in the movie. That is what we’re called being in the present moment. Time ceases to exist.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (16:27.515)
too.
is a master class. I love this. The pie chart is incredible. It’s so simple, it’s tangible, it’s incredibly relatable. And I love that you’ve given us two specific areas of focus, intention, then presence is that atmosphere to enmesh yourself in that intention. if we had to, you know, I’m curious and you can draw upon your beautiful insight from your own playing experience or from what you’ve observed interacting with the best of the best. When it comes to
Jesse Perryman (16:42.553)
Hmm?
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (16:59.227)
cultivating that mindset to really get to the next level, achieve your potential. Intention is a necessary ingredient. Presence and a practice around that is a necessary ingredient. What else am I or the listener really missing to take that next step?
Jesse Perryman (17:19.211)
Other than the pieces of the pie that we’ve already outlined, I think another next step is not to be afraid to get out of your comfort zone on the golf course. Okay? Because that’s where you’re going to learn, that’s where you’re going to experience absolute ton of growth.
So you and I have spoken the past in a bunch about coming from a spirit of neutrality. Right? So if you and I are sitting down, Paul, right now, which we are, but you’re asking me these questions because you want to play better golf. Jesse, I want to become a whatever. What’s your handicap? What’s your intention for this game, Paul? How well do you want to play? Okay, scratch golfer. Okay.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (18:12.209)
Scratch Crawford.
Jesse Perryman (18:15.789)
So you set the wheels in motion to that. But, and this is a big but, you gotta be willing to get a little bit dirty, a little bit uncomfortable. And when people ask me how can I get better, how can I do these things, and I say the quickest way, you wanna know what the fastest way to get better is, is go play in a golf tournament. Go play in a golf tournament.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (18:19.377)
Mm -hmm.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (18:43.707)
Mm
Jesse Perryman (18:43.779)
whether it’s a fun net event at your club or a qualifier for a USGA event. Just go plant one. Just go see. Just go plant one. Go have fun with it. Be nervous. Let all the doubts come. Be afraid of holding that three footer because I can guarantee you lot of mid handicaps, they don’t finish their putts. So when you start putting the pen to paper or a pencil to a scorecard, it becomes real.
And I would recommend anybody to not take their score personally because when you start getting competitive, let’s say to become a scratch, to become a true scratch and not a newspaper scratch or a weekend warrior club pro scratch from the white tees where you’re scraping three or four footers. To become a true scratch, you’ve got to get under the fire of competitive.
I hate to say it, but that is the only way that I know. That you can get better, sure. Sure. But to truly, really know yourself and to get your, to know your game, put it under the microscope. Go play a tournament. Go play a few. Go play a money game. Go play the afternoon gang at your club if you got one. Go do something.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (19:44.549)
Mm -hmm.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (19:51.877)
Yeah.
Jesse Perryman (20:11.673) that’s gonna get you a little bit nervous, a little bit uncomfortable, then if you use everything that we’ve talked about thus far in this conversation, and you go and you look at the kaleidoscope of your first event or your second event or whatever it is, then the game will start speaking to you. The game will tell you what to do. Your pie chart is in motion. It’s in motion. You have the basics.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (20:34.043)
I love how you packaged it.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (20:39.695)
Yeah.
Jesse Perryman (20:41.507)
Hey man, I want you to get up and work out every day or get some movement in your body. That’s going to be huge because a stiff golf swing is not going to lend itself to fluidity of mind. Your mind is, your brain is going to be in full protect mode. if you’re really stiff, it’s going to be hard to mentally let it go. It will be very, very difficult. They all play a part.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (20:57.425)
going to do it.
Jesse Perryman (21:10.497)
It’s all connected. However, you want to get better, go play in some golf tournaments and then your body will tell you. It’ll start talking to you and you’ll know. You won’t be so reliant on external stuff.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (21:27.129)
love how you package that. One thing that stood out to me that you said is when you sign up for that tournament, you’re putting yourself outside your comfort zone. Everyone listening, I have an imagination, knows outside of your comfort zone. That’s where the magic, the growth, the success occurs. And the way you package it, I’m going to paraphrase, I don’t exactly remember, that you said something similar to let yourself feel the nerves and welcome the doubt. And I think there’s two important points to mention on that. Number one is you did a great job normalizing.
Jesse Perryman (21:40.217)
Hmm.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (21:55.631)
That’s part of the human experience. Those nerves, that anxiety, that’s the feeling of being alive. And if you can reframe it that way, it’s no longer as scary, but also keep in mind that fear, that scare, that going back to Jesse’s term is your Northern star. means you’re on the right track. But what I love most about these out of comfort zone experiences is they are in and of themselves miniature master classes as to exactly where you are coming up short or have areas for growth.
So you know if you shank a few off the first tee in your tournament, performance anxiety, pressure, that’s something we can work on away from the course. If you can’t putt to save your life, you get immediate feedback that is a blueprint of what to prioritize in your practice from these out of comfort zone experiences. So well said, I’m so glad you showed that.
Jesse Perryman (22:46.019)
Yeah, it’s the same as when you, and you’re welcome, it’s the same Paul as when you go to the gym. Like if you haven’t gone to the gym for a while and you’re pretty, you’re like, I’m pretty motivated. I’m going go to the gym. need to lose weight or whatever. Those first couple workouts are going to suck. Your body’s going to be, what the hell are you doing to me? Right? So it’s the same thing. But the more you go or the more consistent you go, your body actually starts to like it. Your body loves it. It craves it.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (23:04.75)
Okay.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (23:13.659)
Crave it.
Jesse Perryman (23:16.237)
That pain when you’re burning out those last reps and you got lactic acid in your quads or in your arms and you but you’ve been doing it for a while and you’ve conditioned yourself to want this kind of growth It’s the same thing. I tell people it’s the same damn thing. They ask Jesse. Well, how do you overcome fear? How do you overcome fear going from the first tee to? From the range to the first tee how come people don’t bring their range game to their
golf course, right? It’s because they get in their own way. How do they get in their own way? Well, if you deconstruct everything that you and I have talked about, you’re going to find the answer. If you break down everything that we’ve talked about, you’re going to find the answer. The answer is different, but my answer is when I get up on the first D and up, I’m nervous. Or if I have a little bit of angst, anxiety, a little bit of fear.
It’s not comfortable, but I remind myself that hey, I’m a human being. I’m not a cyborg. You know, it’s okay. I give myself permission to be afraid. I just don’t fight it. It’s the way of the peaceful warrior. You go with the wind instead of fighting it. Trees grow with the prevailing wind. They don’t grow against it. So…
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (24:27.851)
Mmm.
Jesse Perryman (24:43.297)
And they last a long time. And if we go with being a human being and accepting that we’re going to be nervous, accepting that we’re going to have some fear, especially if you put yourself in that situation, go back to the gym example, then you know what? You’re going to be okay. At the end of the day, I remind myself too, this is pretty stupid. Well, I don’t think it’s stupid, but it may sound stupid.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (25:09.648)
I’m
Jesse Perryman (25:11.073)
I just tell myself, I had a, I don’t know, had a three or four footer for par in my last tournament, which was the club championship a couple weeks ago. And I had some fearful thoughts going on when I was over the ball and I was starting to tense up mentally. I could feel it in my body and I backed off. I reread the putt. I took a couple deep breaths and I said to myself quietly, said, Jesse gets
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (25:33.933)
Mmm.
Jesse Perryman (25:40.589)
I said, whether you make this or you miss it, you’re not going to die. You’re not going to die. So just get up and hit the damn thing. And I did. And I made it. I ridded myself. I just completely accepted the energy that was in my body. Because, I mean, what’s that great quote? And this is a huge one for people that are trying to break to the next threshold, whatever that is.
What you resist persists.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (26:14.289)
Yeah.
Jesse Perryman (26:15.331)
what you resist persists. And for whatever reason, the magic of the game of golf, as soon as you step onto the first tee, it’s almost, you are going to subjugate yourself to everything that you’ve resisted to this point.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (26:35.653)
Mm -hmm.
Jesse Perryman (26:37.569)
This truly is a magical journey.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (26:38.181)
standing.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (26:42.385)
Now I’m curious, we’ve done such a great job building this foundational recipe for cultivating the mindset to break through whatever it is your barrier, 190, 80 scratch winning the club tournament. Talk to me about the mindset we cultivate for tournament for playing around. How do we bring that into the practice sessions? How do we attempt to recreate, simulate, mimic the mindset needed to play our best during our rounds in these practice rounds to continue?
Jesse Perryman (26:52.58)
Really?
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (27:11.675)
So essentially grease the groove. What does that look like for you or how you talk about it?
Jesse Perryman (27:17.989)
that is such a great question, Paul. You know, first and foremost, I’m pretty picky about how I prepare. My preparation is, a lot of my preparation is actually away from the golf course. But when I go, when I’m on the golf course, when I’m actually preparing for a tournament, I, if I need to simulate tournament conditions, I will write my score down.
I will put everything out. I will play everything as it lies and I will go through that routine as if and I’m pretty good about that, know doing that. That’s helped me. That’s really paid off for me. Playing a…if the listeners are able to do that, I highly recommend it. You don’t have to put any skin in the game. If you’re playing by yourself, it’s better to put some skin in the game, better to play for a little bit of money.
just because that is part of the preparation. And then another thing too, I will honestly tell everybody, this is my opinion, take it or leave it, but I don’t like to see people beat a ton of balls. I think that the range is a half lie because there’s no consequences on the range. You’re not keeping score on the range. Man, I’d be a PGA Tour winner if I was, I’d be an awesome weight range, but I’m a great range hitter because I can get up there and.
let it go and you know and if you hit a moon ball you can just pick up a ball and re -tee it and hit it again. But on the golf course that’s not reality. So how do you prepare for that case? So what I do prior to a tournament, let’s just say it’s a tournament day and I get to the golf course a couple hours ahead of time, I’ll hit my standard operating wedges but I’ll work on very little technique.
very very little technique, very very little. And I’ll go through my wedge progressions, but one thing that I did this year that’s changed everything is I actually played a golf course before I off. I played a golf course, so if the first hole, first hole at my clubs, a somewhat averageable par five and two, you know, I’ll hit a driver, and if I hit a good drive, I’ll hit a three wood off the tee, and vice versa, if I don’t, I’ll wedge. Just use my imagination.
Jesse Perryman (29:42.177)
And one thing that I found is that when I use my imagination in this particular way, I didn’t know this, but I do know now, I start to preset my nervous system to go into flow. I’m not thinking technique. I’m not thinking that at all. As soon as you’re listening, as soon as everybody here that’s listening, as soon as you realize that once you start to think about technique over and over and over again,
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (29:42.586)
Mm -hmm.
Jesse Perryman (30:11.619)
Those are the grooves that you’re going to be greasing. Okay? So this is a kind of a ninja black belt recommendation here. Paul is when you prior to playing, I would recommend playing the golf course. And then when you go and putt on the putting green prior to playing, use one ball. Just try it. Just try to use one ball. Don’t use three balls. Don’t use a sleeve. Just use one ball.
And just, no judgment, just go out and see what happens. I mean, I’ve made these little subtle tweaks in my game and it’s really paid dividends. Really paid dividends.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (30:53.093)
Expand upon the one ball. Tell me more about that.
Jesse Perryman (30:56.335)
I don’t know, for me it gets me in more game mode. You want to be in game mode, you don’t want to be in training mode. How is anybody, this is an open -ended question. How does anybody expect to go into play mode when all they’ve been doing is training?
There’s a distinct difference. There’s a distinct difference. And when the listener starts to realize that, it’s going to make a big difference in your game. There’s a distinct difference.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (31:17.253)
That’s a very fair question.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (31:26.994)
Talk to me about this, Tell us then, what is different between how you practice for a tournament versus day of the tournament, that warm up routine? Are there any idiosyncrasies or distinct differences between the two?
Jesse Perryman (31:43.599)
Well, how I would train, mean my tournament day, I’m getting there a little bit early. You I like to just not feel rushed at all. You know, I like to just get nice and comfy and go through, I really like to work on my wedges first, chipping, if there’s a chipping green. I might just take a few balls if there’s a bunker, get used to the sand one last time.
take it real easy on myself. I’m taking it real easy on myself, Paul. I’m really allowing myself to just whatever happens. I’m getting my hands acclimated. I’m getting my feet acclimated. Everything is just getting acclimatized to this environment. I’m allowing my nervous system to ease into that competitive flow. So if there’s any technique that I would think about, it would be with my wedges. And that is
Just just limiting my hinge and my wedges and the good players will understand that That’s that’s something that’s you know pertinent to me, but when it comes to hitting balls on the range I play the golf course You know so so I might just hit about 20 or 25 balls, and I’m good You know and if there’s anything else that that I might Find that I need to get a feel for let’s say for example
There’s some holes out there where you need to hit some cut shots. I might spend a little bit more time with that on the range. But once again, I’m going back to preparing my nervous system to actually go out and play the golf course, not to get in positions. That’s the biggest mistake I see people make. Hey, Jesse, wait. I mean, if I go play in my men’s game at my club on a Wednesday or Friday afternoon or on the weekend,
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (33:26.171)
Mm -hmm.
Jesse Perryman (33:41.231)
Well, almost 100 % of the guys that I play with, we usually get about six foursomes. They’re working on their golf swing. They’re working on their golf swing. So it’s, it’s hard. When people ask me that question, how do you take your range game to the golf course? You start to train for the golf course on the range.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (34:02.737)
So so so so so.
Jesse Perryman (34:04.111)
That’s how you do it. That’s the bridge, the gap there. I remember listening to an interview with Ben Hogan. Ben Hogan said, well, I play 36 holes a day during tournaments. Interview says, well, how do do that? Says, play the golf course on the range of my mind, then I go out and play it.
When the most advanced, technically proficient golfer of all time says that, there’s something to it.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (34:34.117)
Yeah. Tell me this. You are so deeply in touch with and enmeshed with your mental game, the awareness, the intention, the presence, the self -awareness are so strong. Was there a pivotal moment or strategy, mental shift that you became privy to at some point during your career that really clicked and allowed you to accelerate your trajectory?
Jesse Perryman (34:59.855)
Yes, I mentioned meditation before. And it started with intent. So I remember in 2021, I played in my second senior amateur event because there are some amateur events that you can play at 50. And I remember being so tight in my first round match and I got matched up against a guy who, you know, I really should have beat.
I beat myself. I beat myself because I wanted it too bad and my attachments were very external. So when I was driving home from that and I lost on the 21st hole and I should have just whacked this guy but it’s okay because I needed to get beat. I needed to learn this lesson. I needed to be humbled. I needed it. And when I was driving home I knew it. But one of the things that I said to myself, I said from this point forward,
My primary goal playing competitive golf is to one, be myself. Two, I want to feel as free as a bird out there mentally, physically, emotionally, spiritually. I want to feel as free as I can be, as if I just don’t have a care in the world. I could get up over a 475 yard dogleg right par four, it’s number one handicap hole.
And I want to get up there and just take a whack at it, not give a shit where the ball goes. Seriously. That’s on a subatomic level. mean, this is getting down to the nitty gritty. And I had to figure out how would I get there? How can I get to a place where I didn’t know the verbiage then, but I know it now, where I can separate stimulus from response?
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (36:43.931)
Thank
Jesse Perryman (36:58.233)
So I’m not attached to an energetic charge that the ego may be feeling. Let’s say you miss a three footer for par. know, F -bomb, this. I never miss these. You you get the external reactions because people don’t want to be embarrassed. And that’s an embarrassment response. I want to get to a place where I literally didn’t give a shit. It’s like, OK, whatever. Moving on. Let’s go play. This is a game.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (37:14.897)
Mm
Jesse Perryman (37:26.287)
You’re supposed to play, you’re supposed to go out and have a fun. You know, it’s not a, it’s not a, you know, it’s not the end of the world if you miss a three footer. It’s not the end of the world if you hook one out of bounds. Just tee it up and hit another one. That’s the place that, now, this is a work in progress. I have a feeling that this is gonna be a work in progress for the rest of my life, but how I got there was meditation, 100%.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (37:46.351)
Hehehehe
Jesse Perryman (37:56.889)
How I got there. Yeah. So that there is still a moving target. And through the practice and the discipline of meditation, I’ve realized that we as human beings, or at least I’m going to speak for myself. And I’ve talked to a lot of practitioners. I’m a member of some great meditation groups on social media. And my teacher, my golf teacher’s a long time.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (37:57.937)
And so do me.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (38:03.813)
Mm
Jesse Perryman (38:26.127)
35 year meditator and Tai Chi practitioner so he and I resonate very very well and one thing that I realized is how much my brain is in overdrive most of the time but we don’t realize that unless we’ve trained the few precious seconds between stimulus and response.
And that’s a powerful thing. And I think that that’s the differentiator in most cases when you’re trying to ascend to another level.
Sure. Yeah. it is, hey, I’m not saying that you’re going to be a Bruce Lee stoic out there. You know, I’m not saying that. mean, Tiger Woods knew himself so well that he gave himself 10, I think it was 10 yards. He gave himself a 10 yard bubble. And I’ve mentioned this before on my podcast and I’ve actually had a few people that knew him well, still knew him well, definitely said that this was the case.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (39:03.739)
I love that.
Jesse Perryman (39:32.527)
Tiger gave himself 10 yards. If Tiger had a great shot, he’d be, yeah, know, fist pumping or whatever. And if he had a bad shot, hey, he wasn’t afraid to throw a temper tantrum. He’d get pissed. He would get hot. But I want everybody listening to remember if you’ve watched Tiger Woods on television, especially when he was probably the most dominant player in the history of golf.
He never, you never see it, you never saw him carry the energy from the previous shot. As soon as he walked 10 yards, that shot was over and done with. This discipline of being in the present moment doesn’t mean that you do not absolve yourself from feeling emotions. It’s actually the complete opposite. It’s the complete opposite. So…
Here’s another Ninja next level triple black pelt piece of information that I actually heard from Cam Smith. Cameron Smith is one of the great players. plays in the live tour, won the British Open in 2022. One of the great players. And a BBC reporter asked him a very adept question, which I don’t know the answer. I don’t know the exact verbiage of the question, but I can tell you what the answer is. The answer is.
The difference between me now and when I first started playing golf is I’m very comfortable being uncomfortable.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (41:01.969)
Mm.
Jesse Perryman (41:02.423)
I’m very comfortable being uncomfortable. And if I was asking the question, would have went, wait, wait, wait, wait, let’s expand on that. Because that, he’s given us the answer to the million dollar riddle. So how do you do that? So you start to set these next level intentions that when people really listen to this and they absorb it. And if you, particularly if they start working with you, Paul,
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (41:10.769)
Yeah.
Jesse Perryman (41:29.625)
You know, these particular ideologies are the gift that keep giving. The gift that keep giving. know, it’s like, you know, my teacher John Erickson says golf to him is like a martial art. You keep ascending belts. You know, you’re not, you’re a white belt, getting started. You’re not ready to learn the next few moves. You have to learn these basic moves. So to ascend to the next level,
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (41:36.399)
you
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (41:56.742)
Mm.
Jesse Perryman (41:58.575)
Except for, know, first things first is except where you are right now. I know I’m saying a lot. So, you want to first things first, except where you’re at. Okay, I’m where I’m at. I’m a 15 handicap. I suck. I slice the hell out of the golf ball. I want to learn how to draw it. I can’t pot. can’t shit. Whatever. But, except these things. Don’t resist them. Remember,
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (42:04.433)
This is great.
Jesse Perryman (42:26.979)
what you resist persists. And I want this to be the undertone of this entire conversation. What you resist persists and I guarantee you, I don’t care how strong you may or may not think you are, or you may think you are, your subconscious trumps everything. And if your subconscious is resisting something, it’s not gonna manifest. So, except where you’re at.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (42:47.483)
Mm -hmm.
Jesse Perryman (42:54.479)
If you’re a 13, a 14, or a 15 handicapper, hey, I’m a 13, 14, 15 handicapper, whatever, a 20, or if I’m a five, you accept it. That gives the ego enough of a break to be open to new information.
You know, the ego needs a break sometimes. The ego needs a break. know, whether he or she is in there chirping at you, a lot of times via the subconscious wavelength, but it’s always chirping at you. But once you, there’s something about acceptance that allows the body to relax. It’s like, I know, okay.
That’s a typical response when you’ve got a full body of acceptance. Okay, all right, all right, okay. Then the ego mellows out and this being the case, how shall I proceed? That’s the next step. This being the case, how shall I proceed? You know? I’m literally giving your listeners, Paul, the blueprint that this is the…
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (43:56.709)
Mmm. Jassi. This is incredible. Yeah.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (44:07.537)
You are.
Jesse Perryman (44:09.345)
really the driving motivation behind me having my podcast because when I talk about this stuff, I learn too. there is very little, in my opinion, it’s such a great joyful experience to continue to learn. It is so cool. You know, it’s so cool.
I’ve got a really good friend of mine who’s a very very good amateur golfer. He’s one of the best amateurs in the state of California, which is which is pretty good and Sometimes I will ask him. Hey, what do you what do you think about this shot or whatever? And you know what? I’ve been playing golf for however long since I was 12 and I’m 54 and He’ll give me in his opinion and I’ll come in I didn’t think of that and I might put that in my in my quiver And it’s cool. I mean, you know what lunch
You always want to try to be in a state of learning. I want you to be a little bit discerning with what you learn, but just be in that state, that natural childlike state of learning. Because when you set these intentions, you just give the ego a chance to relax. The ego can take a chill pill, and that’s when the magic, you start the initial stages of growth. Okay.
So Paul, you come to me and you say, Jesse, I’m a 15 handicap. I slice the golf ball. I would like to hit it powerfully. I would like to hit a draw. And I might take you through an exercise of what does that look like for you? How does that feel in your body? You’re your own best teacher, not me. You are. Asking these questions, you’re going to have your own natural blue.
I care what John Q. Instagram Pro says, I don’t care what the Flippin’ Golf Channel says, or any of these so -called quasi -experts, because I got a little bit of a beef with a lot of those guys, and they know it. So, you know, these are the things that I think that should be a part of mainstream golf and structure. I have these people on my podcast, by the way. So, I make it a point that if you’re going to take this game somewhat seriously, and you want it to be an important
Jesse Perryman (46:36.089)
part of your life, these are the necessary steps to take. But one thing’s for certain, that when you’re working on your golf game, you’re also working on becoming a better human. I really do believe that. You know, it’s very holistic.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (46:53.381)
Dude, that was phenomenal. I can’t wait to go back and re -listen to this myself multiple times. So much of what you’re saying is exactly what the audience needs to hear, what the golfer in me needs to hear. And I want you to make it clear, what is the name of your podcast? Where can people go to learn from you, connect with you and the fellow experts that you chat with on a regular basis?
Jesse Perryman (47:15.619)
Yeah, thanks Paul. I appreciate that. name of the golf, the name of the podcast is called the flag hunters golf podcast. We are on all of the director in all the directories. think, yeah, I’m pretty sure I’ve got a great podcast partner, Justin Tang. He’s one of the best instructors in all of the orient and we have had folks on
that talk about these things, that talk about this very phenomenon that you and I are talking about. There are coaches out there and the information is out there. It’s really high quality information. And as you ascend, you start to utilize some of the different bits and pieces of this information. Yeah, it’s pretty cool. Yeah, it’s super cool.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (48:08.209)
It’s so cool. Yeah. Well, Jesse, I can’t thank you enough for making the time to share your wisdom, your insight and your experience. Like, again, I can’t stress enough. I’m gonna go back and listen to this multiple times and I can’t wait to do this again in the future and just to continue our fantastic friendship.
Jesse Perryman (48:10.285)
No.
Jesse Perryman (48:23.928)
Absolutely.
Absolutely, Paul. Thanks again for having me on. really appreciate it.
Paul Salter | The Golf Hypnotherapist (48:31.185)
Absolutely for those of you listening. Thank you so much for tuning in I’ll be candid I know you got a ton of value out of this episode So not only share it but also go follow Jesse on social go connect with him and subscribe to his podcast It’s wicked good. You will learn so much in every single episode And if you haven’t done so already it takes five seconds to share this episode this podcast with a friend a fellow golfer It takes 30 seconds
to leave a genuine rating and review. It would mean the world to me as well as to Jesse if you took the time to do just that. Otherwise, thank you so much for listening. Hit them straight this weekend and we’ll catch you in the next episode.
Jesse Perryman (49:12.079)
Thanks, Paul.
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PAUL SALTER
Paul Salter - known as The Golf Hypnotherapist - is a High-Performance Mindset Coach who leverages hypnosis and powerful subconscious reprogramming techniques to help golfers of all ages and skill levels overcome the mental hazards of their minds so they shoot lower scores and play to their potential.